[Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

Sat Jun 6 19:20:25 UTC 2009

Or by one of the WMF developers removing the web bug.

2009/6/6 John at Darkstar <vacuum at jeb.no>

> You can make claims about what you yourself wants or believe, but do
> *not* claim that your personal beliefs reflects legal issues for
> Foundation. If Foundation needs to make claims about what is and whats
> not a legal issue, then such claims should be made by Mike.
>
> John
>
> Brian skrev:
> > I also have not seen a clear explanation of what those who would like to
> > generate statistics using web bugs plan to do with that data. How do they
> > plan to use the data, and why aren't the plethora of statistics now made
> > officially available by the WMF not satisfactory?
> >
> > You have bypassed the correct procedure. The amount of time that it takes
> > the WMF to accomplish goals can be frustrating. Getting them to make your
> > goal their goal can be frustrating. But it all has to start with you
> > presenting them with a coherent goal that takes all the constraints into
> > account. Then you need to get WMF approval which often involves getting
> > community approval.
> >
> > Let's be clear that the privacy policy is a legal issue for the WMF.
> > Volunteer admins cannot take user privacy into their own hands, under
> their
> > own interpretation. That's just not how it works!
> >
> >
> > 2009/6/6 Brian <Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu>
> >
> >> This is another e-mail on this subject that just strikes me as flawed.
> >> These are not vague privacy fears - they are real privacy fears. I see a
> >> fundamental failure by those involved in this controversy to understand
> this
> >> point.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Tisza Gergő <gtisza at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Robert Rohde <rarohde at ...> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> You may not be aware, but the relaying of page view data to third
> >>>> party analysis platforms has been tried on a number of occasions in
> >>>> the past and consistently shutdown.  (I think this even includes cases
> >>>> before the Privacy Policy was adopted.)
> >>>>
> >>>> However, to my recollection there has never been a case that quite
> >>>> mirrors yours since we are talking about a privately hosted server
> >>>> administered by a highly trusted community member.
> >>> The (WM-DE-owned) toolserver ran a statistics script called WikiCharts
> for
> >>> a few
> >>> years, which worked with data relayed by Common.js from several
> >>> wikipedias,
> >>> including de and en. While that is not exactly the same situation (as
> the
> >>> WMF
> >>> has access to the toolserver), I think it proves my point that passing
> IP
> >>> data
> >>> to an (in the strict organizational sense) third-party server does not
> >>> necessarily violate the privacy policy, neither letter nor spirit, as
> long
> >>> as
> >>> that server remains within the larger WM community.
> >>>
> >>> It is important to understand that this is a much more general question
> >>> than
> >>> that of web statistics: any third-party service that interacts with the
> >>> standard
> >>> wiki user interface receives private data, whether it needs it or not,
> >>> because
> >>> the user interface (the HTML page) is "executed" in the user's browser,
> >>> and the
> >>> browser has to contact the third-party service, and it cannot hide its
> IP
> >>> in
> >>> that process. For example, we considered setting up some sort of spell
> >>> checking
> >>> service for hu.wp. That is something that cannot be done well centrally
> -
> >>> there
> >>> is too much difference between languages. And if you do it with a local
> >>> server,
> >>> it has to communicate with the user's browser, and could in theory log
> >>> requests
> >>> and correlate them with edits on the wiki, thus it has to conform with
> the
> >>> privacy guidelines. It would be a shame if all such uses would be
> blindly
> >>> forbidden because of vague privacy fears.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>