[Foundation-l] Seeking clarification

Tue Jan 22 23:36:14 UTC 2008

Hoi,
Consider please what the WMF is, it is the organisation that makes our
projects possible. It does the hosting, it provides the framework that
allows our projects, our communities to thrive. It is however the projects,
the communities that make a project work or not. It is not for the
foundation to make a project work. When a wiki failed we killed them. When a
particular project does not have what it takes or its function is replaced
elsewhere, it is for its community to go on or go elsewhere. When Wikipedia
does better at news then Wikinews, it is for Wikinews to find its niche.
News and particularly background information to news has been shown one of
Wikipedias strong points. Asking Wikipedia not to do this is plain not
realistic. Cooperation between these projects may be realistic but it is not
assured.

When you indicate that the WMF has to help projects, I disagree. Projects
help themselves, the WMF may and can facilitate. It can do a lot of
networking for the projects but it is the projects and their communities
that will have to do the work. It is people that *do *that make the
difference. When a particular project does a different or a better job,
inside or outside the WMF framework, people will find it, recognise this.
The most important thing the WMF can do is facilitate, make sure that
connections between like minded projects exist. Help in mashing the data
that exists in so many places and make it gell together. Because THIS is
what the WMF is there for; providing people with information, not to save
projects at any cost.

Many projects have started based on the Wiki concept outside of the WMF.
Many of them are as relevant or more relevant then WMF projects. They are
however not our competition, they share with us and are part of the Wiki
ecosystem. All these projects compete in a way and fill their niche. The
notion that the WMF should safeguard its projects from other projects is
self defeating; when projects lose their relevance inside or out, their
readers, their editors their community will evaporate and there is little
that an organisation can do about it.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On Jan 22, 2008 10:13 PM, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org>
wrote:

>
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:39:46 +0100
> > From: "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Seeking clarification
> > To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> >       <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <41a006820801220639s12cf73f9pc6d2231b6343d079 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >
> > All WMF projects aim to provide information. They all do it in a
> slightly
> > different way. The notion that one project should not and can not
> compete
> > with another is false anyway. Both Wikipedia and Wikinews do news. Both
> > Wikibooks and Wikiversity work on educational material Of relevance is
> the
> > difference in emphasis. This is what makes projects valid in their own
> > right.
> >
> Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Not a news agency. Wikipedia should not be
> doing news, but rather as a more recent post said, do it in the form of
> encyclopedic rather than a news section.
>
> H have been trying to get an explanation of why WP has news to begin
> with. Again, we are NOT supposed to be competing with one another. We
> are supposed to be collaborating. There is a huge difference. It took me
> months and month just to advocate a link to Wikinews on the front page
> news section on WP. So my notion is not false....Wiki*news* ->
> Wiki*pedia*....
> > With the notion that projects cannot compete, you effectively convict
> > projects to stay in the same mold. When there are two groups with
> markedly
> > different insights, one of these has to give up their ideas and would
> not be
> > allowed to experiment with their notions of how things should be / can
> be
> > done. This is evil.
> >
> Same mold: Well yes...Wikinews is news, Wikipedia is encyclopedia,
> Commons is images...etc etc...and what would the mold be for WP and such
> then? I am open to experiments, when it does not leave out
> projects...intentionally. If not intentional, then stop making it look
> like the projects are being replaced. Stop *forcing* competition with
> our collaborators.
> > In my opinion, there should be room for experiments and if we find that
> a
> > new kid on the block does good. More power to him/her. The beneficiary
> of
> > such experiments are the people that matter; the people we are providing
> > information to.
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> >
> There is a difference between experiments, and shutting out projects.
> WMF needs to help WMF projects *first and foremost*. And until WMF can
> do that, then it really has no business venturing to create a
> competition between projects.
>
> Jason Safoutin (Dragon Fire1024)
>
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