[Foundation-l] The problem with Flash

Sun Jan 20 18:08:03 UTC 2008

Replace "(seemingly) startup " with "(seemingly) vaporware startup."
Didn't mean to leave the word out, sorry.

Chad

On Jan 20, 2008 1:05 PM, Chad <innocentkiller at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, I think he's pointing out the issues with this that state why we
> shouldn't use it now;
> this has agreement, I believe. Not to mention, until Adobe releases
> those patents or
> makes Flash an open standard, there will never be a 100% (that's
> gratis AND libre)
> implementation of it, ever, as Ben said.
>
> However, the question still remains: why is it the WMF's job to
> provide a PR boost
> for a (seemingly) startup? Wouldn't we get further by helping Gnash directly?
>
> Somebody knows somebody, that much appears clear to me now.
>
> Chad
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2008 12:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Nice but what is your point and how does it relate to what is the issue? The
> > issue is that a framework is being developed. It needs open source
> > components to make it work and gnash has been mentioned as one component in
> > all this that needs work. What you describe is exactly the reason why work
> > needs to be done to make this type of content work well on Linux
> >
> > So you describe that things do not work well. You provide the exact
> > arguments why something needs to be done ... So you are in favour of the
> > proposed collabaration... GREAT
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> >
> > On Jan 20, 2008 6:32 PM, Ben McIlwain <cydeweys at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Brion Vibber wrote:
> > >
> > > > In many cases that'll cover the same ground as non-free formats; the
> > > > main exceptions are for patent-encumbered standards (eg, the MPEG family
> > > > - MP3, AAC, H.264, etc) and widely-deployed proprietary formats that
> > > > have been reverse-engineered by FOSS developers (eg, Flash).
> > >
> > > On the subject of Flash, I think it might help to relate my experiences
> > > so that everyone on this list knows how deficient it is on free software
> > > platforms.  (This isn't directed to you Brion, as that'd just be
> > > preaching to the choir :-P )
> > >
> > > I run GNU/Linux on my laptop.  Pretty much everything works and I'm able
> > > to do everything I do in Windows, except Flash.  First of all, the free
> > > software Flash alternatives simply aren't there yet.  They aren't good
> > > enough for everyday use.  And even if they were, they still wouldn't be
> > > free, because they're infringing on various patents that Adobe no doubt
> > > holds.  And the free software stuff isn't good enough to create Flash
> > > either, so you still need to pay the tax in the form of the creator
> > > program (which as far as I know doesn't run on GNU/Linux).  You can see
> > > why this is unacceptable.
> > >
> > > Even the official Adobe Flash player plugin for Mozilla Firefox on
> > > GNU/Linux is deficient.  It's treated like a third-rate product by
> > > Adobe, sometimes seeing major version updates many months after the
> > > Windows plugin is released.  In the mean time, new Flash content that
> > > depends on the new features simply won't work.  And the plugin itself is
> > > just bad.  It frequently crashes Firefox, some of its functionality
> > > plain old doesn't work, etc.  And nevermind that it's not free in any
> > > sense of the word except gratis; it's all binary, the source isn't
> > > available, so it's all entirely anti-libre.
> > >
> > > - From where I stand, Flash isn't even an option to be considered in
> > > fulfilling the Foundation's mission statement of "developing educational
> > > content under a free license or in the public domain".  It won't even
> > > run on a completely free system, and it will only run poorly on a
> > > partially free system (giving in and installing their binary-only
> > > plugin).  It is, simply, not what we are looking for.
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