[Foundation-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

Thu Oct 11 23:27:47 UTC 2007

Transvestitism is very different from being transgendered, and being
transgendered is again (sometimes) different from being transsexual.
Pre-op or non-op transgendered individuals are certainly not in a
better position legally than GLB individuals.

On 11/10/2007, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2007, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The earlier suggestion that a doctor's note will be required is also upsetting.
> >
>
> I doubt it. The issue there is that self diagnosis may not be
> considered valid I don't know of any case law in this area.
>
> > For someone who is biologically a man to live socially as a woman,
> > they should not need a doctor's note to avoid persecution. Life is
> > already more difficult for trans people.
> >
>
> Egyptian law treats men and women differently thus legally someone's
> gender at a given time is of some significance.
>
> > In response to my earlier letter, I noticed people bandying about the
> > term GLBT again. Guys, I am not talking about GLBT here really. I am
> > talking about T.
> >
> > GLB people may not be able to be who they are, and for many, that is
> > going to be a no-go.
> >
> > But it is the T people for whose safety I fear.
> >
> > In the trans community there is what is known as "passing", that is
> > someone who is biologically male being able to live as a female
> > without anyone noticing them, or vice-versa.
> >
> > If our trans friends can pass, I do not think they will really be
> > unsafe as long as they are careful, in the same way they would want to
> > be careful if they were going on a road trip in Alabama.
> >
> > If, however, they are among those individuals for whom passing is more
> > of a challenge, I would very much fear for their safety and think that
> > this is a matter of life and death rather than just "not flaunting
> > it". If Jimmy Wales wanted to go to the conference dressed in drag
> > (not that he wants to, but if he did), and go out on the streets
> > afterwards and live "as a woman", he should be able to feel
> > comfortable doing that.
>
> Jimmy Wales is not transsexual.
>
> Transvestism is a separate issue and is treated rather differently.
>
>
> > Now, imagine if you could not feel safe travelling in the gender you
> > are. For the men out there, imagine you had to wear fake breasts and
> > women's clothing to avoid being beaten and harassed? For the women,
> > imagine you had to cut your hair short, duct tape your cleavage, and
> > perhaps even stuff your pants to avoid the same? In the majority of
> > Islamic countries, trans people are not safe unless they deny their
> > true gender identity. This is unacceptable.
>
> The version of Islam prevalent in Egypt views transsexualism as an
> illness and will not oppose any treatment proposed by a doctor.
>
> There is a Fatwā to this effect floating around.
>
>
> > All that aside, what upsets me the most about this issue is the way
> > our community has been blown off by just about everyone. Jimmy Wales
> > was kind enough to at least show some concern; others have called us a
> > "special interest group" asking for unreasonable things or told us not
> > to "flaunt it". This has been so highly offensive and so greatly
> > frustrating that I am having difficulty believing it is coming from
> > Wikimedians, since our organization is so diverse (if you ever looked,
> > you would see there is a higher portion of GLBTQ people on Wikimedia
> > than in society at large).
>
> Legally transsexuals are in a better position than GLBs. Transvestites
> less so not sure about furries.
>
> --
> geni
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