[Foundation-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

Thu Oct 11 20:26:51 UTC 2007

People keep mentioning gay travellers; someone even said to shut up
and not flaunt it and the gays will be fine. Besides that being very,
very, very offensive... (ask any gay person what their feelings are
when someone says they are "flaunting" their orientation, it is an
offensive suggestion)

I realize that GLB people can remain celibate while in Egypt and they
are likely to be fine. The fact that they may be safer pretending to
be something they are not is a bit disconcerting, but that is not my
primary concern.

My primary concern is the safety of potential transgendered and
transsexual conference attendees.

Someone earlier asked me if I have a study about the number of people
who will or who will not attend Wikimania due to such concerns...
well... we have voluntary listings and we have userboxes for gay,
lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered Wikimedians. My guess is that
there will be few to no transgendered and transsexual attendees, not
because there are no T people who wish to attend but because there are
not many T people who feel comfortable in El Iskandariyyah.

I'm not naming names here because it is their own business, but I do
know of several prominent T Wikimedians and I have seen in blog
comments and the like that they are not planning to go because they
fear for their safety. That we have a whole demographic of people who
are not going to go because they fear for their safety is appalling to
me. What is even more appalling is that really, nobody seems to care.

Lots of you have said you have had LGBT/GLBT friends go to Egypt and be fine.

My guess is that your friends have only been gay, lesbian, and
bisexual... have you had trans friends go to Egypt and say they felt
safe there? I think I already know the answer.

Mark

On 11/10/2007, Mark Ryan <ultrablue at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2007, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> > He should say whatever he damn well wants to say.  Making a big fuss
> > that prejudges what he is going to say could be more damaging than his
> > actually saying it.  That would bring on undue attention.  Getting
> > approval from the authorities for a speech against censorship strikes me
> > as somewhat antithetical.  I don't know the circumstances of the
> > investigative journalists you mention, but there is more to
> > investigation than simply giving a speech to a gathering of mostly
> > foreigners.  Arresting Jimbo for giving such a speech or out of
> > anticipation of such a speech would likely be counterproductive for the
> > Egyptian, given the reverberation that would follow in the blogosphere.
> >
> > Jimbo is a well-seasoned traveller.  I'm sure that he knows how to weigh
> > the options for his personal safety..
> >
> > Ec.
>
> I was only making a suggestion based upon what I have read in relation
> to Egypt's actions in relation to this sort of thing. I believe it
> would be in bad conscience not to pass on information like that which
> comes to my attention. Would you not agree? Or would you keep it to
> yourself? I'm confused.
>
> The response to the people complaining about the anti-GLBT atmosphere
> in Egypt has been generally "gay people are fine, so long as you don't
> flaunt it; this is not a political event, it's a wiki event, so don't
> come here with a view to gay rights campaigning and you'll be
> alright".
>
> But then along come Florence and Jimbo and tell us that it *is* a
> political event, that it was chosen because it can be used to campaign
> for human rights in Egypt; that it can bring positive change to the
> people of Egypt. Assuming that GLBT rights is included under the broad
> heading of "human rights", then where does that leave us? With a
> conference that is within that political, activist-zone which
> apparently isn't such a safe topic area, according to Human Rights
> Watch and the Alexandria Bid Team ("You will be in risk however if you
> try to hold a gay rights session").
>
> Make of it all what you will; I just assumed that the logical strategy
> now that Wikimania is going to be in Alexandria would be to "shut up
> and smile", and not do anything inflammatory during the course of the
> conference. The last thing we want is Wikimedians detained or hurt.
>
> ~Mark Ryan
>
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