[Foundation-l] RfC: Draft licensing policy resolution

Fri Feb 23 09:56:24 UTC 2007

On 2/23/07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hoi.
> You got it completely backwards.

NO. Fair use says others may use what we write. yes. Fair use says that in
the US and Canada (and perhaps a bunch of UK-related countries) images may
be used in a certain context, but this is often haphazard, as the context is
always a matter of debate. It can not be freely used outside this domain.
The fair use excemption seems to be only provided because of the huge
oppostion on the english wiki. But the allowance of fair use on the wikis
should not be based on US laws, but on international treaties, and its
adherence to freedomdefined.org. The fact that US laws allow it, is no
reason for us to allow it as well.

Content tagged as NC and ND will on its
> own not be permitted.

It will be deleted by 2008 according to the draft
> resolution.

The draft says:  ''

By February XX, 2008, all existing files under an unacceptable
license must either be used under an EDP, or shall be deleted''

So if a community acccepts NC or ND as an EDP, it will not be deleted.
So your statement is invalid.

When a project has an EDP, fair use may be permitted. This
> is indeed explicitly not in compliance with the notions of the
> freedomdefined.org. Fair use material may have a license, any license,
> including NC and ND. This material will be permitted on the basis of the
> EDP and on the basis of it being considered Fair use. I have never ever
> said that an EDP will allow for all NC or ND.

You have not said that, but  the draft does not exclude it.

What I have said, but not in this thread, that there is no provision for
> the inclusion of logos of organisations. It is extremely useful to have
> logos in our encyclopaedia. The notion that these logos have to be
> available under a license that will allow people to make derivatives is
> moronic. In my opinion it is being over-zealous in how we provide a Free
> resource. The first criteria for our projects is providing information.
> This is forgotten in the argument. Now this is just one reason why it is
> good to have an EDP; this way a project can have logos of organisations
> on its articles and Commons can be what it is; only a resource of
> digital material available under a Free license.

Logos are a prime example of images which are not free and ND. So you
> contradict yourself.

Logos can probably be used under fair use as far as copyright goes, but
often have other restrictions as well.
Logos doe not carry any information accept recognition. They do not server
the purpose of an encyclopedia very much, though they might serve a book
about logos.

If you allow logos, you might as well grant the whole world of press photos,
which are generally intended to be used freely but  ND.

kind regards,
teun

Thanks
>     GerardM
>
> teun spaans schreef:
> > Gerad,
> >
> > "fair use" does not comply with the freedom as in freedomdefined.org.
> There
> > seems to be na rationale to allow fair use except that a large part of
> the
> > english community objects.
> >
> > You keep repeating that NC and ND will be tolerated as "fair use", but
> so
> > far I've read no rationale for regarding them as such. They are simply
> two
> > totally different concepts.
> >
> > kind regards,
> > teun
> >
> > On 2/22/07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hoi,
> >> When material is used with a "Fair Use" argumentation, the license that
> >> this material would otherwise be available under is irrelevant. The
> >> material could even have a commercial license. The claim of Fair Use
> >> trumps any license restriction. When someone wants to re-publish
> >> Wikipedia, the same claim of Fair Use should apply. This is why it has
> >> to conform to the laws of the US and the local law(s).
> >>
> >> It is therefore really simple. On its own ND and NC will not be
> >> permitted. Within the limits of the law, there may be an EDP.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>     GerardM
> >>
> >> Peter van Londen schreef:
> >>
> >>> I politely disagree,
> >>>
> >>> This will be the case when you leave too much room for
> interpretations.
> >>> By using an EDP approach, you leave all possibilities open for
> >>> non-conforming material to the freedomdefined definition. You might
> >>>
> >> close
> >>
> >>> the gap of too far off EDP's with a control by anyone, any committee
> >>> (although there seems to be a disagreement between Kat and Eric about
> >>>
> >> that),
> >>
> >>> but allowing images within an EDP conflicting with the freedomdefined
> >>> definition, like Fair Use, opens up in principle all possibilities for
> >>> communities to do whatever they want, conflicting with the original
> >>> definition.
> >>>
> >>> I asked you to explain me how you can use fair use images for
> commercial
> >>> exploitation and for derivative works: you could not David. But I am
> not
> >>> opposed to using Fair Use, as long as there are no juristic
> detrimental
> >>> implications for the Wikimedia projects, but then be clear about it.
> The
> >>> draft can be adjusted, so that interpretations can be minimized.
> >>>
> >>> Forget about an EDP: use the freedomdefined definition, with two
> >>>
> >> exceptions:
> >>
> >>> Fair use images for the EN:WP and another exception for the Polish
> >>>
> >> Wikinews.
> >>
> >>> Any other exception should have to be approved by the board/GC.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards, Londenp
> >>>
> >>> 2007/2/22, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 22/02/07, Kat Walsh <kwalsh at wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I am afraid of misconceptions and misinterpretations spreading too
> far
> >>>>> about what is to be allowed and what isn't, and I've been hearing
> >>>>> misinterpretations both on the too-inclusive and too-exclusive
> side...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I fear it's a case where either side will seize on anything that
> could
> >>>> possibly support their obviously correct view rather than the
> >>>> obviously misguided opposing view.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - d.
>
>
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