[Foundation-l] Clearing up Wikimedia's media licensing policies (some important points)

Thu Feb 8 16:41:08 UTC 2007

Il giorno 08/feb/07, alle ore 17:21, Gregory Maxwell ha scritto:

> You are incorrect.   For example, If I fork Wikipedia I must instantly
> delete every single with permission image, but I would be no worse off
> than Wikipedia in keeping fair use images.

If *I* fork Wikipedia, I must istantly delete every single fair use  
image, too.
*Fair use/fair dealing* doesn't exist outside UK/US (and other 4  
commonwealth country)

> Surely someone who so
> frequently screams about the foundation can appreciate the importance
> of the right to fork? :)

Some it.wikiers thought about this possibility.
Not me, for now, but I'm starting to doubt about the correctness of  
my opinion.

>> Second.
>> Your references to an italian law was uncorrect.
> I am reasonably confident that it is not.

Lucky you.
That means that you know italian laws better than italian people.

> I hope, we will make our decisions based on reasoned thought and
> research, and not based on who can scream the loudest.  To that end,
> wouldn't it be better if we did as suggested and sought guidance from
> experts on how best to set the policy for itwiki?

This is not a question of "who scream the loudest", but a question of  
reality/unreality.
Italians can't use fair use images. Period.
Other people from other countries can't use fair use images. Period.
Fair use images are not free. Period.

> Please stop to consider for a moment:  In no way does the board only
> allowing image which would be fair use/fair dealing preclude itwiki
> from getting permission.

I *do* think you've not read the first mail.
There's no other explanation.

"It is for these reasons, which we have long supported, that all  
media on Wikimedia sites which are used under terms that specify non- 
commercial use only, no-derivatives only, or permission for Wikimedia  
only, need to be be phased out and replaced with media that does not  
have these restrictions."

*need* to be *phased out*

> Lets assume for a moment that under Italian law, there is no exception
> for excerpting for education.

There is, for text.

> So, itwiki does not permit this
> exception.  Instead, itwiki users will go obtain permission.
> This is
> fine, you can continue to do this, the foundation already said you may
> be more restrictive than they require and many projects already are.

Read the quote here above. WMF considers "having a permission" to be  
*less* restrictive.

> However, even with permission you may still only submit images which
> the rest of the world, which has the concept of fair dealing, could
> use as fair dealing.  This ensures that itwiki are not getting
> non-free permission for images which we could easily create as free
> works ourselves, and it ensures that the work is maximally free.

Probably I've not understood this piece.

> Why does this make you mad? What do you think you are losing?
> All I can see is itwiki losing images which are non-free and could be
> replaced with free ones... and that is a gain for everyone.

Let's repeat.
Images with permission? Not allowed.
Fair use images? Allowed.

What make me "mad" - better, what are making a lot of it,wikiers  
pissed off - is that there is an evidence of not equity in this  
statement.
"Non free images are not permitted, but ehy... uhm... considering  
that en.wiki makes a large usage of non-free images we are gonna  
allow fair use images".

Gatto Nero