[Foundation-l] Cherokee Wikipedia Name Suggestion

Fri Jul 14 05:40:43 UTC 2006

Ray Saintonge wrote:

>Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Not at all. The best way to improve the site would be to work with
>>>other langauge Wikipedias and within Wikimedia. Are you being active
>>>in seeking members?
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Yes, I am, however, our culture is alien to the Wikipedia culture and 
>>there are going to be issues
>>with the way the site operates.  So far every Cherokee who has edited on 
>>WP has gotten banned
>>or scrutinized to the point they leave.  We have a concept of respecting 
>>the space of a person who is working on something. 
>>
>>    
>>
>I guess this is a question of what you mean by Wikipedia culture.  The 
>concept of respect is a big part of it.  The English Wikipedia just has 
>a lot of ravens running around trying to impose it.
>  
>
More like swift birds of prey, not intellectual ravens, I've got several 
sets of talon marks on my
keyboard from WP experiences to show. :-)

>  
>
>>WP 's policies allow a 16 year old with a computer to come in and 
>>disrupt someone else's work and this
>>doesn;t work for us.  Our culture is based on mutual respect, and I 
>>believe WP and Wales operate on the
>>premise people on WP should be the same way.  This has not been the 
>>course followed.  I think WP should
>>continue and we can do hat we need with the content -- off site where 
>>our cultural issues can coexist peacefully. 
>>
>>    
>>
>Mutual respect is not a function of an editor's age.  There can just as 
>easily be wise youth as there can be foolish elders.
>
The whole power admin thing is out of hand on the site. I think the energy
of peoples karma can come home to roost, good and bad. WP is a lot like 
the trading floor of
the New York Stock Exchange when folks get going. Sound like someone we 
all know and love? :-)

> 
>
>  
>
>>You wont get many native people editing here due to the way the site is 
>>organized -- respect for others is
>>lacking in the way articles are edited.  It's ok though, we can still 
>>both be successful if we figure out a way
>>to create dual environments where folks can be successful.
>>
>>    
>>
>I'm sure it's not the only reason they stay away.  But the reason that 
>you cite for the absence of first nations people can just as easily 
>apply to people from other cultures, including ones whose only language 
>is English.
>  
>
One main reason is a lot of them are disinterested and don't have the 
resources. There are also
political and religous issues as well for a lot of our folks.

>  
>
>>I am meeting with the tribal council of the Ute, Shoshone, and Unita 
>>Nations on July 18, at 1:30 in Fort Duschene
>>on the machine translations for their Wikipedia, so I am making 
>>excellent progress.  They also expressed a desire
>>to host their content off Wikipedia due to their review of the issues 
>>with how the site works -- its alien to most native
>>cultures.  
>>
>>    
>>
>I guess this depends on what you mean by "how the site works".  I would 
>certainly not encourage machine translations; the results are often 
>something that makes native speakers laugh.  Although technical material 
>about how the site works is probably best translated, beyond that each 
>language Wikipedia (or other project) develops its own culture.
>
>  
>
Well, this machine translation and the software is being done by a 
Native speaker, and since the template is my brain for how the
translations are done in software, one could say I translated them with 
a machine assist due to volume, so I guess one could say they
were done by a Native Speaker and member of the culture. Once they have 
a large volume of content to edit, I think we are ok.

There have been a few words I've had to adapt to. I use a link parser 
for english decomposition then take the decomposed strings
of morphemes and remap and tense them into Cherokee. Cherokee has a 
rigid structure so this makes it a lot easier to do. I do proofread and
the latest run is now at 98% completeness and accuracy. I am shooting 
for 100% by the end of the summer.

>>The Ute's believe their language is sacred and they don't 
>>want non speakers working on it for religious
>>reasons.  You are going to find this is a prevalent attitude among 
>>Native Peoples.  The ute's did not even allow their
>>langauge to be written down until the mid 1970's due to their religious 
>>beliefs, so this is a big step for them.
>>
>>    
>>
>I have no basis for making comments specific to the Utes, but the 
>linkage between language and culture is a well known one.  This kind of 
>connection where language was a part of the introduction to a culture's 
>mysteries is even a common theme in European cultures.  If it's meant to 
>be the Ute material will come in its own time.
>  
>
Correct. Not my call. I expect some of their own ambitious folks will 
drive that to happen. We just need to
give them the space to come to that conclusion on their own.

Jeff

>Ec
>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>  
>