[Foundation-l] Cherokee Wikipedia Name Suggestion

Wed Jul 12 18:54:38 UTC 2006

And the chr2syl extension needs to be added as well since at present, 
editing in syllabary on the site is difficult.

Jeff

Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

>Oldak Quill wrote:
>
>  
>
>>But is there a way to transliterate it without using any conjugators
>>or verb stem modifiers?
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, there is, but it isn't going to produce a "wiki" sound.   Native 
>languages (ours included) have evolved to incorporate
>expression of the physical world in spiritual terms.  Because of this, 
>misuse of the language is perceived by most native
>speakers as an extreme form of disrespect.  For example:
>
>"di" means plural of nonliving objects and
>
>"u" or "una" means plural of a living sentient being
>
>using "di" to make a human word plural is a form of insult.   diyvwi 
>would mean (its not a real word but could be used) to call
>a person or group of people "subhuman".  You have to be careful with 
>native languages in doing transliteration.  Every Cherokee I
>have shown wi-gi-que-di-ya to has rolled their eyes (oh brother roll 
>your eyes) or laughed because of the name.   The fact is, I dount
>if we named the main Wikipedia site "The bad place put together in the 
>past we should keep our hands off of because its part of an animal and has
>a lot of people dwelling there" would not serve to attract people to 
>edit there.  
>
>aniyvwiya is a very respectful way of saying cherokee people becaue the 
>word yvwi means "it has a spirit".  Another example is Hello in Cherokee.
>Modenr speakers in Okalhoma use two forms.  osiyo and just siyo.  siyo 
>is not respecful and is an impersonal "what do the h_ll do you want" 
>form of hellow because it drops the "o" sound.  "o" in front of the word 
>means "I treat you as an equal and greet you" instead of just "I greet 
>you".  One example.
>
>Here's some other suggestions which are broad and will attract Cherokee 
>editors to the site:
>
>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ ᎦᏚᎩ
>
>"Aniyvwiya gadugi"  - The human people of the creator working together
>
>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯ
>
>"Aniyvwiya" - The human people of the creator.
>
>ᎠᏂᏴᏫᏯᏱ
>
>"Aniyvwiyayi" - The place of the human people of the creator
>
>ᏣᎳᎩ ᎦᏚᎩ
>
>"Tsalagi gadugi" - Cherokee people working together
>
>ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>
>"tsalagi digoweli gatsanula" -    Cherokee fast books
>
>ᏣᎳᎩ ᏗᎪᏪᎵ
>
>"tsalagi digoweli" - Cherokee books
>
>Jeff
>
>  
>
>>ja.wikipedia (ウィキペディア) transliterates as U-I-KI-PE-DI-A! So they
>>transliterated too.
>>
>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>How amusing!
>>>>
>>>>For a language like Cherokee then (agglutinative), it seems
>>>>appropriate to not use transliteration.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You can use transliteraton, but there are rules to avoid using
>>>conjugators and verb stem modifiers in trasliterations since these
>>>create meanings in the word and may create something unintended.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Thinking about agglutinative languages, do you know what the Japanese
>>>>Wikipedia is called (I would imagine that it too avoids
>>>>transliteration).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Not a clue.
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Oldak Quill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Most Wikimedia projects don't translate "Wikipedia", "Wiktionary", and
>>>>>>"Wikimedia", they transliterate them. Even non-Latin alphabets do
>>>>>>this: Russian Wikipedia is called "Википедию" which transliterates as
>>>>>>Ve-I-Ka-I-Pe-Ye-De-I-Ya (those are the names of the letters, at
>>>>>>least). Does Cherokee have some kind of formal transliteration system?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 12/07/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The name should be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ᏗᎪᏪᎵ ᎦᏣᏄᎳ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(digoweli gatsanula)
>>>>>>>"the books = pedia " " that are fast = wiki "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to match the actual meanings of the words "wiki" and "pedia".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The current name of the site, while catchy, is not accurate for the
>>>>>>>language, and was synthesized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Just a suggestion...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Yes. it does have one for words like this, but taking potshots at the
>>>>>name can create something you do not intend.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let's look at it:
>>>>>
>>>>>Wi-gi-que-di-ya
>>>>>
>>>>>wi  - (negative imperfect past tense)
>>>>>gi - to combine
>>>>>que - incomplete verb root about an animal
>>>>>di - plural for a non living object
>>>>>ya - broad area of concern (means "pertains to or covers a broad area or
>>>>>topic)
>>>>>
>>>>>Not to mention "di" is always at the start of a pural word, "gi" is a
>>>>>modifier always at the end of a word, que isn't a word at all, and "wi"
>>>>>is a tense modifer always at the end of word.
>>>>>
>>>>>Translation:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Something very negative in the past was put together for (??? -
>>>>>something that resembles a contraction of the word nesgi which means
>>>>>keep your hands off of it) , and there were a bunch of them (di) that
>>>>>dwell in a large area.
>>>>>
>>>>>In other words, its current name implies "negative place to keep your
>>>>>hands off of and there's a whole bunch of us here".
>>>>>
>>>>>Based on the edit history of the site, seems to have been the course
>>>>>followed.  Perhaps we should change its name?
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
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