[Foundation-l] Offering Wikibooks content for sale

Wed Jul 12 13:01:59 UTC 2006

Ray Saintonge wrote:

>>I guess I would like to see it done through the community as well to 
>>help reduce costs.  Particularly in the printing business, there are 
>>economies of scale that help to reduce costs significantly.  This book 
>>which was for sale at $12 a copy could be brought down to $4 or even 
>>less in large volumes.  It only makes sense that this is something that 
>>can and should be done with a centralized coordinated effort for this 
>>reason alone.
>>
>>One huge issue on top of everything else is simply inventory control. 
>>As this is physical items, that means they can be damaged, stolen, 
>>cause damage, and a host of other related problems.  Lulu Press does 
>>offer this sort of inventory control, and there are other for-profit 
>>businesses who are willing to do print-on-demand, but that does involve 
>>other compromises.  Certainly we shouldn't be tied down to one printer 
>>in any case, and in this situation the Wikimedia Foundation should be 
>>the publisher of the content, not Lulu Press.
>>
>>    
>>
>Allowing others to produce the physical formats does save us the need to 
>hire people for inventory maintenance and shipping, or to rent 
>facilities for storing these goods.  I agree that longer print runs do 
>benefit from economies of scale, but short runs make updating without 
>wastage of obsolete stock easier.
>
It still helps out even with print on demand systems if you have a high 
volume of sales.  The point I was trying to make is that by trying to 
pool our efforts to publish content jointly, we can help reduce costs 
not only for ourselves, but for everybody involved.  It helps even if 
all we are doing is moving from one print-on-demand printing house to 
another for competitive rates.  If it becomes in our interest (Wikimedia 
users trying to physically print content) to purchase physcial 
facilities due to increased savings, perhaps that is something that can 
be discussed when that makes a wise business decision.

I will say that the print industry is very competitive in almost every 
aspect, and so many options available that we shouldn't be tied down to 
a specific business model.  Lulu Press and places like that, however, 
seem to be the easiest way to do some initial printing and get started 
in the process.  There are more things, however, that can be done with 
an organized group of Wikimedia users, and I would like to be involved 
with those who want to do this with English-language content.

>>There are some legal issues such as placement and usage of trademarks. 
>>You hit that one well, and in this situation we need to have it defined 
>>exactly how and in what ways that the WMF would like to have their 
>>trademarks and logos used on publications. 
>>
>>    
>>
>What's really needed in terms of trademarks in general is a clear policy 
>statement from the Board about the kind of activities that it considers 
>to be violation of its rights.  This may be greater of less than what is 
>available in its rights under the law, though it stands to reason that 
>the more it deviates from its legal rights the more the policy will be 
>challenged.  None of this prejudges what an actual legal proceeding 
>would produce.  The primary effect of such a policy would be to give a 
>safe harbour for activities that are not clearly forbidden.
>  
>
Agreed.  I'm not demanding that the WMF drop everything just to help fix 
this squeeky wheel, but I would point out that by cooperating with 
Wikimedia users and providing a path that seems reasonable will make 
everybody comfortable.  There will eventually be some genuine sleezebags 
who will push the envelope and perhaps force legal action by the WMF 
into trademark defense, but we are not trying to push the limits of 
legality here.  All I'm asking for is to see what the WMF would consider 
to be reasonable uses of their trademarks with print publications.  The 
sense I am getting is absolutely no use of any trademark is permitted, 
even if it is a mere URL or even a side mention like "Thanks to the 
Wikimedia Foundation for hosting the servers that made this content 
possible."  If those need to be removed to keep Brad and the WMF board 
happy, I will oblige.  I think that would be unfortunate, however.

-- 
Robert Scott Horning