[Foundation-l] Re: check user policy/Tor

Sun Nov 6 20:13:01 UTC 2005

On 11/5/05, Amgine <amgine at saewyc.net> wrote:
>
> > Wiki projects do not need to know my IP address, and I'm not going to
> > provide it. If you don't want my edits under those conditions, it's your
> > loss
>
> I agree entirely with this statement. When I compare (anecdotally) the
> cost of accepting Tor edits with their benefit, the cost far outweighs
> any gain.

Unless you are using the CheckUser tool inappropriately, you have no way to
compare, even acecdotally, the costs and benefits of edits made through Tor.
This is because a number of the edits made using Tor are by logged in users.
I doubt the data is even available to know what percentage of edits made
using Tor are by logged in users.

Should users be able to edit using Tor without logging in? I'd say yes, and
these edits should simply be marked as edits made using Tor, so that they
can easily be examined and reverted. (Additionally, these edits could be
blocked for short periods of time during times of actual attacks). But this
is a completely different question as to whether or not logged in and long
established users shoudl be able to edit using Tor.

What threshold should we set for this? Personally I'd put it as low as 10
article edits over the course of a week. If you manage to make ten
article-space edits over the course of a week without getting yourself
blocked, I think you should be able to edit using any IP address, even
blocked ones, as long as you yourself are not blocked. If you then start
using the account to vandalize, it's easy to block you. If we get a lot of
vandals making 10 good edits over the course of a week and then making a few
vandalizing edits and getting themselves blocked, I'd say the benefits
outweigh the costs. That said, I could see an argument for a slightly higher
standard. Even if it's 100 edits over the course of 3 months I think it's
worth it.

Right now, as I've said, even admins can't edit using Tor IP addresses
without first unblocking those IP addresses.

I would not easily suggest limiting any source of positive
> contributions, but anonymizing hosts are not a net positive; quite the
> opposite. We should not need to know your IP, but by insuring we cannot
> know your IP you also add yourself to a class of users who are not
> beneficial to the Wikimedia projects. This is an opt-in situation for
> you, and Wikimedia has no ability to separate you from the spammers and
> vandals who likewise prevent us from knowing their IP.

But Wikimedia *does* have the ability to separate me from the spammers and
vandals who also use that IP. I've made over ten thousand edits over the
course of years. My account is clearly not a throwaway account made solely
for the purpose of spam or vandalism. If you don't want me to edit, then
block me, not my IP address.

Anonymizers should not be considered a problem, but rather a very useful
> identifying tool. Make their anonymity a feature, rather than a drawback.
>
> Amgine