GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

List overview All Threads
Download

newer

older

Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki to...

Re: [Wikitech-l] Generating diffs...

David Gerard

5 Aug 2013 5 Aug '13

5:03 p.m.

Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong? - d.

Show replies by date

Greg Grossmeier

5 Aug 5 Aug

5:25 p.m.

...

Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong?

I got a report that my message to wikitech-ambassadors@ was sent to spam last week, as well. Just throwing out a datum. Greg -- | Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

Yuvi Panda

5:31 p.m.

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog

Mathieu Stumpf

6:19 p.m.

Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :

...

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point

Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)

Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada

6:45 p.m.

What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it? 2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf <psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org>

...

Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point

Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Brian Wolff

6:51 p.m.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related... --bawolff On 8/5/13, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- -- - Brian Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85 million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

C. Scott Ananian

9:25 p.m.

I recommend posters re-read bawolff's message: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Brian Wolff <bawolff(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related... --bawolff

lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely what is causing the email to be flagged. --scott -- (http://cscott.net)

David Gerard

9:32 p.m.

On 5 August 2013 22:25, C. Scott Ananian <cananian(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely what is causing the email to be flagged.

Is that easy or hard to fix? (I can't work out how to get a list of email addresses for wikien-l, to work out how many subscribers are on gmail. I know at one stage *all* of the moderators were ... it's a popular service for good reason.) - d.

8:23 p.m.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp(a)gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it?

Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam, Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"

Risker

8:57 p.m.

On 5 August 2013 16:23, OQ <overlordq(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada < emijrp(a)gmail.com

wrote:

What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam

and

Google filter has learn it?

Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam, Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one. Risker/Anne

David Gerard

9:15 p.m.

On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Does anyone have a contact at GMail? (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme last resort ...) - d.

Ken Snider

9:57 p.m.

I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email). Thanks. --Ken. On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone have a contact at GMail? (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme last resort ...) - d. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

C. Scott Ananian

10:18 p.m.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <ksnider(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email).

If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.) --scott -- (http://cscott.net)

Tim Landscheidt

11:02 p.m.

"C. Scott Ananian" <cananian(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the > ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org > email).

...

If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.)

Just want to point that I am neither Brian Wolff nor would I call the bug report a diagnosis :-) -- it's just a guess. Greg asked (cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556#c1): | Can someone who has some of the emails that were marked as spam please pastebin | the headers? We're working with a contact at Google now to diagnose. It is | probably the SPF issue, but they haven't suggested it yet (they probably | haven't gotten that far). Tim

MZMcBride

11:10 p.m.

C. Scott Ananian wrote:

...

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <ksnider(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email).

If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.)

Tim L.'s diagnosis, rather, but indeed. As I understand it, this would be a Wikimedia operations issue (setting an SPF record in Wikimedia's DNS records for lists.wikimedia.org) and would fall to Ken and his team. MZMcBride

Greg Grossmeier

11:29 p.m.

Just looping the list in on the status: We're talking with a support person from Google, they've made a couple of suggestions that I've forwarded to Ops (specifically SPF and DKIM). They also asked for the headers of some of the messages, which you saw I related to the bug. I sent them the one Alex shared. I'll let the list know when I have a more solid answer (ie: "we're all fixed" or "email hates us"). Greg -- | Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

9:25 p.m.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote: Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is

...

affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one.

Hurm I stand corrected, I know it does this for some lists I've been subscribed to, but not the WM lists, so *shrug*.[1] The troubleshooter[2] does encourage SPF/DKIM, and if that fails to contact them[3]. 1 - http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html 2 - https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2696779?rd=1 3 - https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send

Bináris

6 Aug 6 Aug

4:26 a.m.

2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>

...

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list.

CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(

Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada

10:48 a.m.

Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam folder". I did it for all my wiki filters... 2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta(a)gmail.com>

...

2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list.

CU-list is also deeply involved. :-( _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Amir Ladsgroup

7 Aug 7 Aug

7:42 a.m.

Same for me. I added a filter but I'm thinking about a better solution... Best On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp(a)gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam folder". I did it for all my wiki filters... 2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta(a)gmail.com>

2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list.

CU-list is also deeply involved. :-( _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- Amir

Tim Starling

1:18 p.m.

Everyone who is affected by this should complain to Google. Make it clear that it is a recent problem. It's better if the complaints come from users than from outside. -- Tim Starling On 07/08/13 17:42, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:

...

Same for me. I added a filter but I'm thinking about a better solution... Best On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp(a)gmail.com

wrote:

Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam folder". I did it for all my wiki filters... 2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta(a)gmail.com>

2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list.

CU-list is also deeply involved. :-( _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

David Gerard

1:55 p.m.

On 7 August 2013 14:18, Tim Starling <tstarling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Everyone who is affected by this should complain to Google. Make it clear that it is a recent problem. It's better if the complaints come from users than from outside.

Is there anywhere they're actually listening? That's really not something Google is good at. - d.

Chad

1:58 p.m.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:55 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 7 August 2013 14:18, Tim Starling <tstarling(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

Everyone who is affected by this should complain to Google. Make it clear that it is a recent problem. It's better if the complaints come from users than from outside.

Is there anywhere they're actually listening? That's really not something Google is good at.

I decided to not care about the problem very much since I assumed Google wouldn't either. -Chad

shi zhao

8:12 a.m.

wikimedia-l, checkuser-l, wikitext-l and wikitech-l in spam, but just the a email not in spam :D Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ My blog: http://shizhao.org twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao [[zh:User:Shizhao]] 2013/8/6 Yuvi Panda <yuvipanda(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Bartosz Dziewoński

5 Aug 5 Aug

7:06 p.m.

On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong?

I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me. -- Matma Rex

David Gerard

7:07 p.m.

On 5 August 2013 20:06, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out > what we're doing wrong?

...

I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me.

Been affecting a pile of lists for me, so it's something in what we send in the headers. - d.

Federico Leva (Nemo)

14 Aug 14 Aug

12:01 p.m.

So, are you still seeing this happening? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52556 was wontfix'ed, but SPF rules were actually added and all messages I receive now have spf=pass; however it's unclear how much this helps (it's surely not *the* source of the problem). Nemo

David Gerard

12:14 p.m.

On 14 August 2013 13:01, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I haven't had much gobbled by the spam monster lately, fwiw. - d.

Myles Gray

7:36 p.m.

Same here, funnily enough. Nothing in spam. -Signalizing On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, David Gerard wrote:

...

On 14 August 2013 13:01, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com<javascript:;>> wrote:

problem). I haven't had much gobbled by the spam monster lately, fwiw. - d. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- Signalizing @ enwiki / Sent from Gmail Mobile

Tyler Romeo

7:41 p.m.

I'm a little confused: - Right now it appears our SPF records just say to allow everything (unless I should be checking something other than lists.wikimedia.org). - Why was the bug marked as WONTFIX if it was actually FIXED? *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo(a)gmail.com On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Myles Gray <signalizing.wiki(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

Same here, funnily enough. Nothing in spam. -Signalizing On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, David Gerard wrote:

On 14 August 2013 13:01, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>>

wrote: > So, are you still seeing this happening? > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52556 was wontfix'ed, but SPF rules

were

> actually added and all messages I receive now have spf=pass; however

it's

unclear how much this helps (it's surely not *the* source of the

-- Signalizing @ enwiki / Sent from Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Tyler Romeo

7:42 p.m.

Disregard the first point on that email. I misread the header. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo(a)gmail.com On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Tyler Romeo <tylerromeo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Same here, funnily enough. Nothing in spam. -Signalizing On Wednesday, August 14, 2013, David Gerard wrote:

On 14 August 2013 13:01, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>>

wrote: > So, are you still seeing this happening? > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/52556 was wontfix'ed, but SPF rules

were

> actually added and all messages I receive now have spf=pass; however

it's

unclear how much this helps (it's surely not *the* source of the