First all I (and others) were doing was reverting articles back to the state they were in
before SouthernComfort got to them (except for one mistake when I inadvertently changed it
on [[Elamite Empire]]). SC's changes were just after the community had voted down
Slrubenstein's proposal to move wholescale to his preferred notation. As I wasn't
changing articles (SC was doing that), but merely enforcing the community vote. Even if
the ArbCom disagree and decide SC was right to add his preferred notation to these
articles, is taking a different view (in light of the community vote) something that is
worthy of admonishment, let alone the threat of banning?
Fred says that the decision shows that "you cannot impose the particular usage you
prefer on the rest of the world, especially on groups that are offended by that
usage....Another aspect of the decision is that you cannot unilaterally declare your
preference Wikipedia policy without having it adopted as an actual policy". Yet
instead of applying it to SouthernComfort (who was actually changing a wide range of
articles in accordance with his preference), he chooses to apply it to me (who was merely
trying to stop him from doing that). Has Fred really got the right man?
I should, as an aside, mention that I have in arguments and edit summaries to
SouthernComfort referred to a "preferred notation". The context of that was not
to misquote WP policy (which all participants are quite aware of), but to make the point
that in practice almost all WP articles where there is a choice use BC/AD notation and
that the overwhelming majority of English-writers in the world (90%+) choose BC/AD
notation. It is in that sense that it is "preferred", and in that sense that I
was using "preferred". I appreciate Fred would not, on a quick and possibly
non-chronological, readthrough would not have picked up that context, but that's what
it was. It's important ans Fred is saying that an important aspect in this is that I
was arguing my preference was WP policy - let me assure everyone, that was not the case.
Bearing this in mind, does Fred accept that his comment is no longer appropriate (or at
least, should not in particular be directed against me)?
Ambi goes on to mention the wishes of the particular editors on the articles being dealt
with. Well, I suggest that until SouthernComfort got to the articles, the preference was
clear. Does SouthernComfort's involvement change anything. Well, for most of the
articles, he had made as many (or as few) edits as me before he changed them. Since one
person cannot make a difference to whether there is consensus, surely the answer is no -
he alone has changed nothing. As to the "widespread agreement" Ambi refers to -
the only evidence of such agreement is SouthernComfort claiming a "consensus" in
his edit summaries (and on one talk page there is one other user agreeing with him - and
two people does not a consensus make).
This whole case was confused right from the start - half the Arbitrators chose to take the
case not to discuss behaviours but to discuss principles - namely (1) We have a failed
proposal, which was very divisive; (2) Some editors are trying to implement that failed
proposal; (3) Other editors are trying to stop them. It seems ArbCom are deciding whether
they like the failed proposal or not (a content issue, which they shouldn't be looking
at anyway), deciding that they do like it, and then moving to ban the user who has tried
to stop its implementation.
On the "offensiveness" point, my opponents have offended me and (as they have
admitted themselves) deliberately so. SouthernComfort's "offence" is so
acute that when he wrote his paragraph supporting Slrubenstein's proposal, he did not
even think it worthwhile mentioning it. Indeed, none of Slrubenstein's supporters
actually claimed to be offended themselves by BC/AD notation. So, as RickK said to begin
with, shouldn't WP ignore the "I am offended" argument rather than pander to
it?
Overall, I have been completely put off WP by the whole incident, and you will not see
jguk returning. I have received many messages of support (and indeed have found it
heartwarming that everyone who has commented on the case who does not support SC on the
content issue has noted that the ArbCom has gone too far and is too one-sided in this
case. This is true regardless of whether they have been involved in the case or are
neutral outsiders.
Kind regards
jguk
Ambi wrote:
I think this is a bad way of putting what is a sound idea in this
instance. It is true that Jguk was changing date formats to something
that offended SouthernComfort and others. It is also true, however,
that SouthernComfort had been changing date formats to something that
offended Jguk and others.
The issue here, though, is that deciding on these issues (as with
whether to use American or English English) comes down to the editors
of a particular article. There appears to be widespread agreement on
the particular articles involved (of which SouthernComfort was one of
the editors) that BCE-CE was preferable in this instance. Jguk then
went around changing them to his preference anyway, regardless of the
article consensus - and that's what isn't on.
-- ambi
On 6/19/05, Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)ctelco.net> wrote:
No, it sets the precedent you cannot impose the
particular usage you
prefer on the rest of the world, especially on groups who are
offended by that usage. It is more an elaboration of our general
policy on courtesy. Another aspect of the decision is that you cannot
unilaterally declare your preference Wikipedia policy without having
it adopted as an actual policy.
Fred
On Jun 18, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Rick wrote:
> This decision is apparently setting the precedent that
> if a user can claim that edits they disagree with are
> offensive to them, then their view is the only
> acceptable view and the rest of Wikipedia's editors
> can go hang.
>
> RickK
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