On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 22:13, Delirium wrote:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
>Adam is right of course.  I don't know who he is quoting, and maybe
>that was only a joke, but sysop is always and everywhere supposed to
>be a purely technical matter, not a position of authority and power of
>any kind.
>
>I think maybe I need to say that a lot more often, eh?
>
>And maybe we need to focus on what technical changes could be made to reduce
>the differences between sysops and ordinary signed-in-users.
>  
>
This will probably be opposed by those who'll see it as just another 
step into hierarchical organization, but I think it might be a good idea 
to create a new, more-inclusive class of users, that has authoritative 
significance but no technical powers.  Basically any user who has been 
here for some period of time (maybe 2-3 weeks or so), and shown 
him/herself to be editing in good faith.  As we get bigger, I think 
there will be a lot more "fake" users trying to influence things, so 
restricting things like policy formation and votes to "real" users in 
some sort of formal way might be a good idea.  I'd envision it being 
very easy to gain this status: even someone who's invovled in lots of 
edit wars should be considered a "real user", so long as they aren't 
purely a troll or vandal, or someone who just signed up 3 hours ago.

This might actually have the effect of reducing the hierarchy somewhat, 
because right now sysops are a sort of de facto group of "trusted 
users", since the only defined groups we have are "sysops", "logged-in 
users", and "anonymous users".  Sysops are too small a group, and 
logged-in users are too big a group (anyone can create 100 accounts if 
they wish).  Making a larger group of trusted users without technical 
powers would reduce sysops to being just a subset of that group with 
additional technical powers, but no additional powers of any other sort.

Ideas?

-Mark
I for one love this idea. In addition to addressing the problems that Delirium lists above, it would have the added benefit of giving users a modicum of validation from very early on, thus maybe reducing the number of walk-in walk-outs, and also reducing the number of folks applying for sysophood after 2 weeks and 100 edits who only really want validation for their existence on wikipedia.

Now at the other end of things, maybe at this point on the English wikipedia we have enough sysops in attendance at any one time, that it would not be unreasonable to require two concurring sysops to perform sysopactions which are uncommonly needed but potentially particularly controversial. I am thinking about unprotection of pages and undeletion as well. Perhaps protection of page as well, with the proviso that only one of the sysops participating in the protection be uninvolved in editing the page or having taken a strong view about it. Is this technically feasible?

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen (aka Cimon Avaro)