[Wikipedia-l] Use of images (again)

Wed Jun 28 13:56:32 UTC 2006

> But... my aim is to attract as much traffic and active users as I can. Now,
> the main problema I see with using commons are:
> 1) you need to open an account on it, if you want the interface to start
> with your language. I.e: you must be able to cope with an english interface.

(Universal login: we at Commons await it more than anyone else,
possibly. ;)) As for English login, not quite. We have managed to
internationalise the login as much as possible: see
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Userlogin . And I saw a note
in this week's Signpost (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2006-06-26/Technology_report
) that it is now possible to have "Optional language selector for user
login/registration forms". So I certainly hope Commons will be the
first place to implement that.

> 2) there is no way for a local edition to use commons as an "included"
> service (that is, one page as another, inside the edition).

? Not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to image pages?
The Commons images create "fake" image pages which copy all the
content to your wiki, and there is a link back to the Commons page for
the full information.

If you are referring to regular Commons articles I can't imagine why
you'd want to do this...

> 3) file categorisation is 100% :en. (let alone file description)

Yes, this is true. Technical limitation until category RDRs are
properly implemented. File descriptions are NOT required to be in
English at all. But if SCN were to turn off local uploads it would be
extremely nice to have some Sicilian speakers volunteer as Commons
admins. We are extremely welcoming to admin candidates of
lesser-spoken languages.

> 4) file descriptions should have a sort of "fallback language", so that once
> they are uploaded on a language any number of tranlations maybe added
> without loosing the original version. Failure to do so would really mean the
> risk of me publishing an image from Thailand in an article on a chinese
> emperor (how on earth can I read that?) and the chinese publishing a
> Rotterdam pic in an article about the Alps.

Not sure what you mean by this. We encourage people to translate the
descriptions on image pages.

I don't think publishing the wrong picture is much of a danger (when
in doubt, why would you put it?), but interwiki links & Check-Usage
tend to be very handy in such situations. (Check-Usage is a tool that
tells you where a Commons image is being used in all of Wikimedia.
Like global "what links here".) As long as the interwiki link is
correct you can safely copy any images the interwiki links use.

> 5) commons interface is quite out of wiki standards, and the localisations
> distributed by Betawiki do not seem to cover the whole UI, part of which
> remains in english anyway.

Hm, I am not sure about the technical points with Languages.php and
all that. We have changed our navigation menu which most language
files can't cope with, I know... I will just say we really encourage
translators and are very responsive to updating translations. I
personally promise that if you put translations on my talk page, I
will update them within 24 hours of reading my talk page.

If you are interested, and maybe you are since your English is great,
we can work together and over the next week update the language(s) you
speak so they're all up to date. I agree that having the interface
translated is important. (and policy pages, and warnings :) but most
important of all is to have admins who can act as a bridge.)

> Besides, I have all my trouble in explaining users how to use wiki pms, I
> doubt that I will end up in reducing my workload, if I have to teach them
> how to use commons, too.

Short term vs long term...I know there is a huge workload for
up-and-coming wikipedias. So it's your call. I do understand that the
default option of allowing local uploads is a lot less initial work.

Using Commons means less work, but it certainly doesn't mean NO work.
It is necessary that some admins from that Wikipedia/language take on
extra responsibility and become Commons admins. It is necessary that
bilingual people from that language make up to date translations. Now
as much as I want to support other languages using Commons, I simply
cannot do those things. It's just a fact. So some people do have to
step up, because throwing your users in the deep end with no Commons
contact will not work at all.

We have a page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Help_page_maintenance
which has a rough heirarchy of which pages should be translated first.

> I was asked to translate my questions in italian because he had trouble in
> using english (see what I mean? Not the whole planet has an EN-3, even among
> the admins). I translated them and... never got back any answer. It's a
> couple of months now. As you certainly understand, opening a new edition
> with a small user base means so much trouble that I simply forgot about it,
> until now. I guess he did exactly the same.
>
> Hopefully you won't forget about me :) It's an important issue, but it must
> be carefully addressed.

I will certainly do my best not to. :) And I will do my best to help
you solve any issues you see between pms.wp (or scn.wp or any other
project) and Commons since you guys are our first priority. Commons
works best when everyone uses it, then everyone has the most benefit
too.

I looked up Piedmontese since I freely admit my ignorance of it. I see
it is spoken in Italy. I was wondering what kind of attitude
Piedmontese speakers have towards Italian speakers? Is it true that
most Piedmontese users can also read/understand Italian? ie....are
Italian help files and messages sufficient for Piedmontese speakers?
Obviously Piedmontese would be preferred, but I guess what I'm getting
at is, how essential is it to have a Piedmontese translation distinct
from an Italian one? Please don't take offence if the answer is "100%
essential". There's only one way to find out these things....

best regards,
Brianna