[Wikipedia-l] Where are the decision makers?
ScottL
scott at mu.org
Tue Jul 4 21:20:30 UTC 2006
Ok, that is an acceptable answer though again I still think we are
talking about a really really small group (according to
[[Transnistria]], there are 177k RO/MO people in Transnistria of which
only some are going to be school age and only some of those not going to
Latin scripted schools).
Though Sabine does make a valid point that most of them (the ones in
Moldova proper as well) probably can sound out words in any language
written using Cyrillic and a large number also are likely to know
Russian. To me the more interesting question is how many of them know
the RO/MO language in Cyrillic to the exclusion of Latin and are likely
to have access to a computer with Internet access.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
> It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
>
> Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about
> the language, they would go to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or
> http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak
> article.
>
> They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
>
> And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the
> Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught.
> This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual
> script.
>
> Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of
> Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a
> biscriptal nation.
>
> As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
>
> Mark
>
> On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
>>
>> Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova.
>> Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
>> * on Wikipedia.
>>
>> We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This
>> writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to
>> discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole
>> life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to
>> Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use
>> this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily
>> backup this.
>>
>> If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you
>> have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way
>> interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people
>> concerned.
>>
>> But enough on this. Let's see the way the current
>> vote<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipedia>on
>> meta ends.
>>
>> On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is that a threat?
>>>
>>> Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people
>>> to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really,
>>> there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing
>>> articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about
>>> something like this.
>>>
>>> I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on
>>> interrupting.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
>>> out
>>>> of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com > wrote:
>>>>> Would it really make everyone happy?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be
>>>>> closed and/or deleted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>> one-two year time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
>>> mo to
>>>>>> mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this so difficult?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>>> You do not get it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan
>>>>>>> wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive;
>>>>>>> attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
>>> more
>>>>>>> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
>>> they
>>>>>>> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this
>>>>>>> attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
>>> relevant,
>>>>>>> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just
>>>>>>> evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
>>> you
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> plain wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
>>> Everybody
>>>>>>> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> GerardM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Liviu Andronic wrote:
>>>>>>>> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
>>> make
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
>>> I do
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
>>> this
>>>>>>> junk.
>>>>>>>> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
>>>>> issue. I
>>>>>>>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
>>>>> unimportant
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
>>> community.
>>>>> If
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
>>> Moldovan
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
>>> war
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
>>>>> those
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> can make a difference to just ignore?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
>>>>>>> confusion
>>>>>>>> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
>>>>>>> encyclopedia
>>>>>>>> of the highest possible quality"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
>>> take
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
>>> all
>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
>>> to
>>>>> do is
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> common sense to decide on this issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
>>>>> stewards
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
>>> to
>>>>>>> adopt. I
>>>>>>>> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
>>>>>>> deliberately
>>>>>>>> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
>>> cease
>>>>>>>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
>>>>> persons)
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
>>> if
>>>>> no
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
>>>>> two-three
>>>>>>> months
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Liviu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacky PB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
>>> would
>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>> wasting
>>>>>>>>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
>>>>> unimportant.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> safest
>>>>>>>>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
>>> as
>>>>> we do
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Liviu
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>>>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Liviu
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Liviu
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
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>
>
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