[Wikipedia-l] Individual Wikipedias for different Sinitic vernaculars (Cantonese debate) - update

Thu Jan 27 09:14:29 UTC 2005

1. That is to say nothing of Alaya

2. If we subjected all new Wikipedias to such standards, we would
probably only have 20 Wikipedias

3. Why are you so much against these Wikipedias being created if they
are as you say so useless? Could it hurt?

Mark

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:08:09 +0800, Sheng Jiong <sheng.jiong at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of course I read, and I checked their user pages too. Felix Wan(who
> was raised in Hong Kong, by the way) confests that he "occasionally"
> edits Chinese Wikipedia, and I doubt if he is going to edit the
> proposed Shanghainese Wikipedia in the future too. NiShishei basically
> made "no* edits at all in English Wikipedia, and he does not even have
> a username in Chinese Wikipedia. Pangguanzhe, again, only registered
> on Jan 21 2005 and made a grand total 8 edits, including 3 edits for
> his own user page. My suggestion: find someone who has really made
> contributions to Wikipedia first before setting up these totally
> useless Wikipedias.
> 
> [[User:Formulax]]
> 
> 
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:31:27 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Uhh... hello, did you read my e-mail? I listed native speakers
> > supporting a Wu Wikipedia.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:36:57 +0800, Sheng Jiong <sheng.jiong at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It is totally absurd to set up so many Wikipedias for various Chinese
> > > dialects. Being a native Shanghainess, my mother tongue is Wu. But I
> > > have never seen any books written in the Wu dialect in my entire life,
> > > and I have only heard of one book that was written in Wu in the 1930s,
> > > and apparently it received very limited attention. Speaking language
> > > is very different from the writing system, and in Chinese although
> > > there are hundreds of dialects there is however only one writing
> > > system. Wikipedia being a *written* encyclopedia would mean that we
> > > only need *one* Chinese Wikipedia, written in Chinese characters.
> > > Speakers of the different dialects can pronounce each characters in
> > > very different ways (A Wu speaker can hardly understand Cantonese or
> > > Min-nan, and vice versa), they all have the same grammar and similar
> > > ways of expression, after thousands years of cultural integration
> > > within the unified country. (And by the way Mandarin also has a long
> > > history of being the "offical" spoken language in China: since Qing
> > > dynasty in the 1600s it has been adopted as the language spoken in
> > > Emperor's palace, and during the Republic of China period it was
> > > selected by the parliament as the official spoken language of the
> > > government after a democratic voting.)
> > >
> > > Different dialects of course have their own distinct cultures: in
> > > traditional Shanghainese Opera the actors speak only Wu (just like in
> > > Beijing Opera the actors speak in Mandarin); there are also other
> > > similar operas for Cantonese or other dialects and these operas still
> > > receive much attention today in China. However the writing system of
> > > China has been unified since Qing Shihuang's time in around 220BC, for
> > > the convenience of the communications among all Chinese. It will be a
> > > big joke if today someone want to return to the old days when no one
> > > can understand each other.
> > >
> > > Interestingly also Mark seem to neglect the fact that really no native
> > > speakers of all these dialects support the proposal, knowing that it
> > > is a totally unworkable proposal.
> > >
> > > [[User:Formulax]]
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:34:36 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > In this e-mail I don't want to personally introduce new arguments but
> > > > I want people to know that further debate on this topic is continuing
> > > > at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
> > > >
> > > > Some speakers of these languages have lent their support: Steve,
> > > > Instantnood, and Felix Wan for Yue/Cantonese, and Nishishei,
> > > > Pangguanzhe, and alaya for Wu/Shanghainese (Wu also includes the
> > > > varieties of the surrounding areas including for example Suzhou).
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly, on that page, no native speakers have directly
> > > > condemned the idea (only direct opposition is from Shizhao), although
> > > > Toytoy, a Cantonese speaker, has some concerns.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > > >
> > >
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