Reputation (was Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Quenya language request, and Chinese Wikipedia again)

Wed Feb 23 06:17:42 UTC 2005

Dear Mark W.,

At 05:09 23/02/2005 +0000, Mark Williamson wrote to Stan Shebs:
>"Thanks" for the advice.
>
>I have some for you, too - cool off a bit, and quit acting so 
>condescending. It's very irritating, even in small doses. And as I have 
>noted before, while friendly advice is usually appreciated by me, when it 
>is given in a tone like this it really doesn't help anybody.

As someone who has supported you before (even though I have no way of 
telling whether you appreciated it), I ask you to break a little bit there 
-- Stan Shebs' advice wasn't *that* bad, actually... It is easy for us all 
to sound a bit condescending at times (and you probably think I sound 
condescending right now), but you sound more than a bit condescending (and, 
frankly, a bit irritating (since you brought up that term)) yourself at 
times, you know ....

I think this may be a good time for you to step back a bit and rethink your 
debating strategies.

Listen to Stan -- and give what he said some thought. It won't hurt. You 
don't need to post all your thoughts about it here (or anywhere else, at 
that) -- but please try to listen. Maybe you find that he isn't right. But 
in that case, maybe you could make your own life easier by finding out 
why/how people misunderstand you -- and then find ways of avoiding these 
misunderstandings...?

I appreciate very much your struggle for "small"-language wikipedias, Mark. 
I have also seen you contribute in many other great ways., and I hope that 
you will continue the struggle for Wikipedia to become ever more democratic 
and diverse within the limits of truth and humanism. But in this struggle, 
one needs both a strong conviction AND a level of humility (!) and 
flexibility (!!!) that allows people not to be driven away from the good cause.

I have defended you before, and will be happy to do so again as long as I 
see that you do positive things for Wikipedia. But sometimes it is time to 
listen and learn for all of us -- even for you.

Respectfully,

Olve

___________________

Olve Utne
http://utne.nvg.org