[Wikipedia-l] Helga again

Thu Sep 5 11:25:09 UTC 2002

Michael R. Irwin wrote:
> > But, the Holocaust was undeserved.  That's as uncontroversial a fact as
> > "The Earth goes around the Sun".
> 
> Only if one considers a major World War beneath notice.

The only way we can say that it is uncontroversial that the Holocaust
was undeserved is if we think that WWII is unworthy of notice?  To put
it another way, are you saying that if we think WWII is an important
event, we have to regard it _controversial_ to claim that the
Holocaust was wrong?

That's what you said; I'm sure it isn't what you intended.  But I
think this illustrates the lack of clarity in your thoughts on these
matters.

> OTOH It is not "offensive" to report the facts on the 
> Holocaust without mentioning in every other paragraph that the
> Nazi's were obviously to all right thinking people sick and evil.  

This is a straw man fallacy.  Absolutely no one here is claiming that
we have to inject moral condemnation of the Nazis into "every other
paragraph".  Pretending that we are merely muddles the discussion to
no good purpose.  Please don't do that.

Here's a false alternative: (a) pretend that 'maybe' the Nazis were
right or (b) engage in random moralizing on every controversial topic
in wikipedia.  When I say that we must avoid (a), I am not advocating
(b).

You may think that the NPOV is muddled and self-contradictory.  I
think that you aren't thinking clearly, as shown by your fallacies and
non sequiturs.

--Jimbo