Printable version (was RE: [Wikipedia-l] Why Wikipedia needs linkbacks)

Mon Nov 26 21:35:57 UTC 2001

From: "David Merrill" <david at lupercalia.net>
...
> > This article is from Wikipedia (http://wikipedia.com), the free
> > online encyclopedia. You can find this article at
> > http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/fpw/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page
...
> Absolutely. Require that text at the bottom of each page, then?

Something like that.  I'd like to get to that soon.  I think I'd like to
find some plausible way to leave the exact wording open.  The only
disputed issue of any significance, I believe, is whether we will
require a link back to the actual article URL on Wikipedia.  I know
there's been a lot of resistance to that, but it's really important, if
we're going to get a lot of new contributors, that people be able to
find the original article quickly and easily.

> If I
> decide I want to do something slightly different, can I approach you
> with my proposal? I suggest you state in the copyright and GFDL
> implementation text that you can be approached for special situations.
> No general solution is going to work for everyone.

Yes.  Good point.

> Does Bomis hold official copyright on Wikipedia?

Yes, more or less.  I'm not sure what that means.  I'll leave it to
Jimbo to articulate a position on that, which I believe he might already
have done.

> I didn't see it on
> the site.

And that's another problem we need to rectify.  :-(  It's just a matter
of getting it right and getting around to it.

> You really should post a copyright notice on the main page,
> directly, which includes the implementation of the license in it.

That's my understanding too.

> I am concerned that you run into a violation of the *spirit* of the
> GFDL, if not the precise letter, if you require some large or
> intrusive attribution on derivative works that doesn't exist on the
> live Wikipedia pages. In my case especially, since it isn't really a
> `derivative work' but just a downstream packaging of Wikipedia
> content, as it were.

Maybe it would help, in some way, to include the notice on each
Wikipedia page, indeed; that might remove some of the objections people
have.

> Hopefully, given my track record of unpaid volunteer work for the
> Linux Documentation Project, and now some fair amount of unpaid
> volunteer work for the Wikipedia, you know that I'm not a money
> grubber who is trying to take advantage of Wikipedia or Bomis. I want
> to see you get fair attribution. My goals, in large part, are your
> goals. I want you to succeed. However, I also want the maximum
> flexibility in how I attribute you, within reasonable parameters of
> course. Your suggestion here sounds like something I can live with.

Good!

> I've also decided definitely that all Wikipedia content that is
> packaged beside the LDP documents in Linux distributions will contain
> a live linkback to directly edit the page. That could easily bring a
> million Linux users to Wikipedia every month. More if you count the
> local page views. That is a good thing for Wikipedia and for Linux.

No kidding, that would be fantastic.

> Please give me your views or guidelines on how I might approach this
> effort. My goal is to start having Wikipedia content used as part of
> Linux help, but I don't want to move the LDP over wholesale (and it
> would be rude to my authors, even those who GFDL'ed), nor do I want to
> simply leech. I'm just knocking around ideas right now, so if you can
> suggest any I should consider I'd appreciate hearing them.

Well, I'm not sure what else you need other than our recommended
wording, whatever it will be.

> I will be formatting the output differently from Wikipedia, though. I
> will make the output look as similar as I can to the other documents.
> I have to merge man pages, html, and docbook documents, and it is a
> challenge to make the presentation of all those documents seamless
> across format, but that's what I'm trying to do. I want the transition
> to and from Wikipedia pages within the Linux documentation database to
> be similarly seamless. I'll attribute Wikipedia pages, and probably
> put up a logo for graphical browser users.

Sounds groovy.

> I will run the final stylesheets past you once I get to that point.
> Live release in actual Linux distributions is probably six months
> away, so there is no hurry. I promise to be very amenable to following
> your suggestions, as long as you keep in mind that the user experience
> comes first in my page layout philosophy!

Well, it has *never* been our desire to ask anyone to do anything that
would make the user experience less than optimal.  (I happen to think
that clearly-presented information about the source of an article
definitely enhances the user experience--but not, necessarily, in the
form of even a small table banner.)

> Thanks for resolving this issue quickly. It really is fundamental and
> the sooner you resolve it, the better for everyone. Then it becomes a
> non-issue and we can all get back to work where we should be. :-)

Sorry it wasn't sooner!  I should have read this sooner, or I would have
seen that it is really high priority.

Larry

> Regards,
>
> --
> Dr. David C. Merrill                     http://www.lupercalia.net
> Linux Documentation Project                   david at lupercalia.net
> Collection Editor & Coordinator            http://www.linuxdoc.org
>
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