[Wikipedia-l] Where to move commentary

Tue Nov 6 21:30:55 UTC 2001

You might or might not know that on

http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki.cgi?Larry_Sanger/Moving_commentary_out_of_Wikipedia

I proposed to move the contents of [[Wikipedia commentary]], personal
essays, and perhaps some other pages to a different wiki altogether.
This proposal seems to have broad support, but there has been some
disagreement over details.  So, maybe we can talk about those details here
a bit.

First, should we put these materials on a completely separate wiki or just
in a "commentary:" namespace of the new wiki?

I'm in favor of a completely separate wiki.  Why?  A different namespace
on the same wiki would use the same [[Recent Changes]] page that we're now
using (unless Magnus rewrites the software :-) ), which just wouldn't
solve the problem.  (The problem, as I see it, is that we get rather too
easily distracted by debate over policy proposals and personal essays on
the main wiki.  We should relegate the discussion and essays to a separate
place that we understand is not the top priority.)  Moreover, with a
separate namespace, it'd be slightly too convenient for my comfort to
interlink the encyclopedia and the discussion section.  That, again,
wouldn't solve the problem.

Second, what should we put on the commentary wiki (call it the "metawiki"
for short)?

It seems everyone who is at all in favor of the proposal agrees that at
least these things should live on the metawiki:

* [[Wikipedia commentary]]
* Personal essays, such as those linked to from [[Larry Sanger/Columns]]
* Other personal page content other than what most people have on their
personal pages (such as what I have on [[Larry Sanger]]).  In other words,
all we need on our personal pages on the main wiki is something about
ourselves, maybe the articles we've worked on, and a space for talk.

There are other possibilities:
* Announcements
* How to edit a page
* Policy pages
* Feature requests
* Bug reports
etc.

Axel Boldt said we should include *all* such stuff on a separate wiki or
namespace, which is something I could live with, I think, as long that
namespace (or those namespaces) had a different [[Recent Changes]] page.
But I prefer a separate wiki altogether for the commentary.

Basically, I think the policy, procedure, and propaganda pages (PPP!) are
important to have right there at our fingertips, particularly for new
people.  The PPP pages are important in a way that the commentary is not.
For instance, it's really important that people come to grips with "the
neutral point of view" if they want to write many articles for Wikipedia,
but not so important that they see my latest essay about the perfect
such-and-such.

But the PPP pages should be separate from the encyclopedia articles for
purposes of counting articles and specifically designating encyclopedic
content.  So, that's what we could use the other namespaces for.  The PPP
pages could go in the "Wikipedia:" (or "w:") namespace.  You might wonder,
in that case, what the specific difference is between the metawiki
commentary pages and the "Wikipedia:" namespace policy pages.  Why not
have them all in the "Wikipedia:" namespace (and the "User:"  namespace)?

Well, as I see it, it's a matter of officialness.  The "official" policy
statements go on the "Wikipedia:" namespace.  New policy proposals,
debate, and long-winded essays--and y'know, this stuff isn't *that* hard
to spot :-) --would go on the metawiki.  Moreover, all manner of our dirty
laundry could be archived on the metawiki, and, depending on how hard the
envelope were pushed, probably no one would have any objection at all.

Third, so how would we create this?  In four steps.  Jimbo creates the
wiki.  We move commentary and essays to the new wiki.  We add links to the
new wiki in a few (but not too many) prominent, relevant spots.  Then we
delete the commentary and essays from the old wiki.  It'll be pretty easy
--no heavy lifting required.

What do ya'll think?

Larry