[WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

Sat Nov 25 17:31:40 UTC 2006

Sean is merely mocking himself with his allegedly witty posts.  He has no
doubt also opened the eyes of a few people who might previously have thought
highly of him, even if only because of his position on Wiki.  Sad really.

On 11/25/06, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com> wrote:
>
> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> > Puppy wrote:
> >
> >> Stan Shebs wrote:
> >>
> >>> Puppy wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I appreciate that, Fred. I am not concerned so much about the lack of
> >>>> response to my concerns, as I am about the lack of response to overt
> >>>> sexist attacks on this mailing list.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I personally didn't respond because it looked like trolling, and
> you're
> >>> not supposed to feed the trolls. But apparently my attempt at troll
> >>> starvation is evidence of misogyny? Bummer...
> >>>
> >>> Stan
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I almost didn't respond for that very reason, but now I'm glad I did.
> >> Women are emailing me telling me how intimidated they feel - they don't
> >> want to post their concerns to this list because they also feel
> >> intimidated here. That I would have never known had I not replied.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Generally this list is home to not sexism but general stupidity. What
> > will it take before people feel safe enough to post here?
> >
> I don't have a solution. I do, however, now recognize there is a serious
> problem. I didn't add anything to the recent threads about trying to
> increase female participation in WP because I had no idea why women
> would /not/ be editing, standing for admin, standing for arbcom, etc.
> Now I know at least one reason, and it is something I can do something
> about.
>
> It appears I'm one of those "thick skinned" women Keitei refers to - I
> didn't even think there was much of a problem until this started, as
> I've said. I have now received multiple emails from different women, all
> stating they are intimidated and afraid to post on this list, and
> thanking me for talking about this. The mere fact that gender bias is
> being discussed seems to be encouraging to them. I think we may need to
> adopt a vigilant attitude towards sexist comments, and not ever let them
> slide or slip under the radar. If there is a concerted message that
> sexist comments are not welcome, gradually the climate should change. As
> Larry Pieniazek pointed out, we cannot change the world - but we can
> change how we respond to sexism in our little sphere of influence, which
> includes all things wp - wp itself, this mailing list, and yes irc. We
> have no control over irc, of course, yet if there is concerted response
> towards any sexism, it should have an effect. I am speaking here of
> personal responsibility, not Wikipedia policy or responsibility. It
> behooves us to remember that what may seem like a "shrug it off" comment
> to us, to women who are already intimidated, it may be the kiss of death
> insofar as their participation in Wikipedia is concerned. Keitei said
>
> "I am afraid to say anything about
> feeling harassed on #wikipedia because it seems that I would be told
> that they were just joking or I need to lighten up or that's not a
> bannable offense. Not that I hate everyone who does it either, and I
> don't even know if they know they're doing it, but it's a shame that
> it's allowed and overlooked. Although I am part of the problem here
> for not speaking up."
>
> If someone feels the climate is hostile to speaking up, we are not
> making this a supportive or even neutral environment to women. Sean
> Barrett is apparently mocking any concern, if I understand his emails
> correctly. This is not conducive to women feeling free to voice
> concerns, and goes beyond "allowed and overlooked" into outright
> hostility - if women are already afraid, mocking their concerns is
> definitely adding to and exacerbating the problem.
>
> Those are my thoughts currently - does anyone else have any ideas?
>
> -kc-
>
>
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-- 
Jim
http://iacobomus.blogspot.com/