[WikiEN-l] Rules, expertise, and encyclopedic standards

Tue Mar 8 15:06:25 UTC 2005

>From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
>
>JAY JG wrote:
>
>>>From: "Charles Matthews" <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com>
>>>
>>>JAY JG wrote
>>>
>>> > Perhaps the [[Wikipedia:No original research]] page needs to be 
>>>updated with
>>> > examples which make that point that if it really is that simple, 
>>>someone
>>> > else will have done the work for you already, and all you need to do 
>>>is
>>> > quote them.
>>>
>>>Literally speaking, conversion of temperatures from Fahrenheit to Celsius
>>>would fall foul of this.  And numerous other things: such as conversion 
>>>of
>>>dates out of one calendar system into another, metrication, currency
>>>conversion, inverting family relationships from 'nephew' to 'uncle' ...
>>
>>No, that's a strawman argument.  "Deductive reasoning" becomes original 
>>research when it is used to build a case against a position presented in 
>>an article, not when used to do unit conversions.  Now if you were to 
>>assert that based on genetics and "simple deductive reasoning" that uncles 
>>were more closely related to nephews than aunts were to nieces, that would 
>>be original research, and you'd have to find some source which supported 
>>it.
>
>That's certainly an extremist view.

Ray, labels like this aren't helpful.

>It implies that a crackpot theory is acceptable as long as it has 
>previously been published somewhere else.

Nothing of the sort.  The "NPOV policy" indicates that extreme minority 
views need not be presented in an article, so that issue is well covered.

>However, if the public thought that the theory was so ridiculous that they 
>felt it a waste of time to dispute it we would not be allowed to publish a 
>refutation on the grounds that it was original research.

You wouldn't need to refute it, since you wouldn't need to cite it in the 
first place, as above.

>You seem to forget the original purpose for the rule.

I don't think so; what do you think I have forgotten?

Jay.