[WikiEN-l] Non-free images, there has to be a better way

Mon Jul 4 15:33:45 UTC 2005

>I am curious to see what exactly the confirmation of permission was.

A very fair question.

I learned of the images from another web page on the 1360, which I 
referenced in my article. The author of that page told me they were 
copywrite of the LLNL, so I wrote to their archives office and after a short 
time received e-mail confirmation from them, directly, that I could use the 
images. This information was provided in the image tags, along with the 
filing number of the originals.

Really, I couldn't have done anything more. LLNL WANTS me to use these 
images in the wiki.

>The only images that are acceptable are those that are either fair use
>or under a free license. Anything else is shot on sight, and rightly so.

Why? This is still a complete mystery to me. If we have permission to use 
them, why not use them?

I looked at the thread the tag pointed to, and there is no discussion of the 
logic behind the decision. As far as I can tell, it's "because".

Can anyone give me a straight answer to this seemingly fair question?

>[[Special:Upload]] states (possibly not quite clearly enough):
> > Please do not upload files under a "non-commercial use only" or
> > "copyrighted, used by permission" licence. Such files will be
> > deleted.

It says that _now_. It did not say it all along. According to correspondance 
on my talk page, the decision was taken last August. Then on May 19th it was 
made final. It was at THAT point (or possibly later) that the tags were 
updated. However I can't tell when the tag page itself was updated, as it 
does not have a history. Certainly there was no change notification (ie, big 
red letters) on the tag page, so you'll forgive me if I simply missed it.

Basically the problem here is this: the decision was made that "from 
today..." with no advance warning. If it had simply taken one day to receive 
permission, the images in question would still be on the system due to the 
[[WP:PUI]] arbitation process. That's an arbitrary decision, one of the 
things that the wiki process is supposed to avoid. And it wasn't even a good 
date, like "June 1" or something at least non-random.

Further, I think the images in question could have won the [[WP:PUI]] 
arbitation process. But I wasn't given the chance, because I uploaded after 
the arbitrary and unnoticed cutoff date.

>revert war brewing - they don't take the sensible options of notifying
>the uploader, asking for a second opinion, or warning the user(s) - they

This is precisely what I wanted. Someone to explain to me why this was going 
to happen.

I too am an admin, and have considered reverting the deletion, but I really 
still don't know what to do. _I_ don't want to start a revert war, but I 
feel cheated.

>opinion, because it's the only option available to me. Maybe you're just
>tired and bitter

Well sure, you would be too. But that's to some degree beside the point.

The failing here is the process. A major failure. If changes like this are 
taking place, with ramifications this big, everyone should know about it IN 
ADVANCE. It should be on the front page of the wiki, up top, in the "gold 
box". It should be discussed, on the wiki, so people can say their two 
cents. People who are going to get whacked should be notified, in advance.

None of this happened. The decision was made outside of the public view, 
took effect on a seemingly random date, with absolutely no warning. That's 
just plain wrong.

Maury