[WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power

Sat Jul 2 17:58:48 UTC 2005

Or instead, we could give the trolls what they
actually deserve and kick them off the list, that way
we don't have the list overwhelmed with troll posts
that we have to pick through to get to the actual
discussions here.  Turning the other cheek only goes
so far.

Dan Grey dangrey at gmail.com:

Why don't people just give trolls what they deserve?

Do us all a favour, and when people post here only
looking for
trouble, give them what they deserve - the silent
treatment.

Dan

On 02/07/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Calling someone a "fascist hag" is not a crime
either,
> but it is obnoxious namecalling that should not
belong
> on this list.  We shouldn't tolerate such trollish
> behavior in the name of "dissent".
> 
> Geoffrey Bell truetheatertype at gmail.com:
> 
> Wait wait wait...I haven't been watching this list
> like a hawk, and maybe
> we're talking about two different people, but I
don't
> see any trolls, only a
> dissenter. And dissent is not a crime, of course.
> 
> On 7/1/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Can we please remove the anonymous troll from this
> list?
> >
> 

--- wikien-l-request at Wikipedia.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (David
> Gerard)
>    2. Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low EQs
> (Fred Bauder)
>    3. Live 8 and the In the news box (Dan Grey)
>    4. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Fred Bauder)
>    5. Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (Sean
> Barrett)
>    6. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Jerome
> Jamnicky)
>    7. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Timwi)
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 01:37:06 +1000
> From: fun at thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin
> Power
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <20050702153706.GH7309 at thingy.apana.org.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> I have a dream ... of a wikien-l that isn't the
> [[Thomas Crapper]] Memorial
> Sewer for en:. One that has something vaguely to do
> with writing an
> encyclopedia.
> 
> New members of the list now start moderated. This is
> a major PITA for your
> power-crazed fascist list admins (to be addressed
> henceforth as Dear
> Leader), but that's the problem with persistent
> trolling.
> 
> 
> - d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:46:52 -0600
> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> Subject: Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low
> EQs
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <79149CF7-ADE9-4123-802E-EAB4A51A1854 at ctelco.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;
> delsp=yes;	format=flowed
> 
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> > From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> > Date: July 2, 2005 9:45:36 AM MDT
> > To: "Nathan J. Yoder" <njyoder at energon.org>
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low
> EQs
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 2, 2005, at 8:32 AM, Nathan J. Yoder wrote:
> >
> >>> "You are a hypocrite" is a personal attack. "You
> seem to apply a
> >>> lenient standard to yourself and a strict
> standard to others" is a
> >>> description of behavior, particularly if you
> cite examples.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Those mean the exact same thing!  You just gave
> the definition of a
> >> hypocrite.  You're making a meaningless
> distinction here and I
> >> seriously doubt you follow your own logic.  Are
> you saying you've
> >> never called someone a troll or accused them of
> using sock puppets?
> >> Can you honestly say that you've been using a
> very long-winded,
> >> politically correct version of a troll
> accusation?
> >>
> >> And I do give examples, but you seem to keep
> ignoring that repeatedly
> >> because it suits you to ignore it.
> >>
> >> You REALLY do not have the authority to make an
> arbitrary distinction
> >> like that as it's outlined in *zero* policies.
> >
> > What it says, at
> [[Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.27t_do_it]]  
> >
>
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.
> 
> > 27t_do_it) is "Comment on content, not on the
> contributor." Let's  
> > suppose you are trying to add content and someone
> is reverting it  
> > on the basis that it is "personal research" "POV"
> "unsourced" or  
> > whatever. You look at their edits and find they
> are doing the same  
> > thing or a number of other things equally bad and
> are vigorously  
> > defending their actions behind a smokescreen of
> righteousness. This  
> > is all publicly visible on Wikipedia and can be
> demonstrated by  
> > diffs. Going to a person's talk page or the talk
> page of an article  
> > and discussing this double standard is not a
> personal attack. A  
> > bald statement that someone is a "hypocrite" is.
> >
> > I have sinned and doubtless will sin again;
> however, I think I'm  
> > doing better; partly because looking at all the
> ways people get it  
> > wrong and serving as a spokesman for Wikipedia
> policies does get me  
> > to thinking about my own behavior. When you find
> yourself about to  
> > do something you have banned someone for you can
> sometimes pay  
> > enough attention that you don't do it.
> >
> > As to authority, doubtless Wikipedia policies can
> be expressed more  
> > clearly, doubtless decisions of the Arbitration
> Committee could be  
> > both plainer and more comprehensive, but Jimbo and
> through him the  
> > Arbitration Committee do have authority to make
> reasonable  
> > decisions. Please keep in mind that you are only
> being limited in  
> > the range of voluntary work you chose to do on a
> particular website.
> >
> > This politically correct business is worth a
> comment. If I succeed  
> > in following Wikipedia policy or correctly
> restating it I am in  
> > some sense "correct" in that I have followed the
> "party line." That  
> > is what I am supposed to do. I am not in a state
> of sin because I  
> > describe in detail behavior which could be
> summarized as an  
> > invidious characterization.
> >
> > Fred
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:48:58 +0100
> From: Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Live 8 and the In the news box
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <cfe1dfe1050702084871d548ce at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> It would be nice if any admins reading this could
> update the In the news box:
> 
=== message truncated ===

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