[WikiEN-l] Re: Human rights abuses in Iraq

Sat May 15 10:22:40 UTC 2004

On Thu, 13 May 2004 04:23:29 -0700, Poor, Edmund W wrote:

> Why can't we just create a separate page called (something like) "Images
> of Iraqi prisoner abuse" or even "Images of Iraqi torture"?

The legal question: Are you the owner of the pictures that you
                    can publish them on Wikipedia unter GFDL?

My personal question: Why do you need pictures to be shown when
                      writing an entry for an encyclopaedia
                      about torture at all? Is this a picture-
                      book for children? Is Wikipedia in need
                      of getting attention on the cheap way
                      showing pictures that are shocking or
                      erotic to the public?

> I have tried (but been reverted by user:Rei) to balance the hundreds of
> thousands of murders under Saddam, and the countless mutilations,
> tortures and rapes (all kept secret by Iraqi officials) -- with the
> dozens (at most, hundreds) of similar but usually less serious incidents
> under Coalition auspices (all being investigated and publicized by
> American officials and journalists).

I don't want to start a discussion about the second iraqi
war, but just a few points:

 - It doesn't matter how many people were tortured by US and
   british soldiers, the effect on the iraqi public is
   devastating. After the lie on the weapons of mass destruction
   the claim of the invasion was the freeing of the people
   and the end of torture of innocent people. Now it was
   coming to the public that the soldiers of the US and
   Britain are doing exactly the same at exactly the same
   places.
 - You forgot to count the people that were dying because
   of the UN-embargo initiated by the US after the first
   iraqi war. News were talking about more than 100,000
   people, mainly children and old people, being dying in
   lack of medicine and other things.

> Let's do our best to report how many Iraqis were murdered, tortured,
> etc. on SADDAM'S watch as well as on Bush's watch.

That's the neutrality of a moderator of a soccer-game. Doing
the same on the number of deaths is a little sarcastic I think.

> Obviously it's going
> to be hard to find any pictures of Saddam's victims - one may imagine
> that possession of a digital camera or CD burner would be difficult for
> an ordinary Iraqi in the 1990s through March 2003 - and woe to him who
> says, "Oh, look, I found a CD with a bunch of incriminating pictures". 

What's the purpose of putting a lot of pictures ... oh, I
said that already.

> There hasn't been a single question raised, either by US officials or US
> journalists, about punishing the people who gave that first disk of
> photos to CBS. That's a free society in action: find the problems, and
> fix them.

Interesting fact is that CBS was not publishing them until they
found out that other news-stations are going to do so, because
they were asked by the Pentagon to not send them.

Regards, Lothar
-- 
Lothar Kimmeringer                E-Mail: spamfang at kimmeringer.de
               PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)

Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong
                 questions!