[WikiEN-l] Re: Consumerium and 142

Sat May 8 11:55:50 UTC 2004

"Fennec Foxen" <fennec at gmail.com> wrote in
message news:3406cd4e04050716174153651c at mail.gmail.com...
> On Fri, 07 May 2004 14:30:37 -0700, Stan Shebs
<shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> > Having scanned their RC, I think they're going to be preoccupied
> > with their own problems more than attacking Wikipedia.  For instance,
> > 142.177 created some pages about some of our favorite people ("Auntie"
> > Angela, Tim Starling, and Erik Moeller) summarizing their evil deeds
> > (great reading, like watching Rashomon), then later somebody named
> > Juxho blanked them! A beautiful example of people bringing their
> > baggage with them wherever they go...
>
> Do the site owners know about this? Do you think this is just another
> friendly Recyclopedia which 142.177 is subverting to his own
> purpouses? How can we contact the owners and ask them whether they
> find this acceptable? =/

The site owner is Juxho. Stan Shebs noticed him blanking some things. I've
suggested to Juxho before that he might want to get rid of 142, but he's
happy to tolerate him, just deleting particularly objectionable material.
142 has been at consumerium for many months now.

142 is a professional wiki troll. He is active on many wikis. On some wikis
he encounters resistance, like Wikinfo or Wikipedia, and on others, he is
able to set up shop and write about his philosophy in detail, and edit the
wiki's statements of policy and direction to include his own peculiar views.

> Why doesn't 142.177 just spring for his own wiki hosting already? =b

He's been offered free hosting at least twice. But that's no fun. Unless
he's stepping on someone's toes while he writes, there's no point in
writing. Here's what he told me when I suggested moving off consumerium to a
wiki made just for him:

--START QUOTE--

Absolutely not. If you attempt such a move, you will be undone. Also if you
persist, defamed in ways that reach beyond wiki-space (fair game, as libel
of named parties was begun on your "mailing list").

The Content Wiki and Opinion Wiki of Consumerium will have very severe
governance problems. The Wikipedia problems are just a prototype or
foreshadowing of these. So while it is normal to have no-compromise
high-engagement faction-biased discourses like this one (why we would
engage), that by no means implies compromise on any principle. Be VERY clear
on this:

Many people would physically harm you without a bat of conscience for
severely reducing the odds of Consumerium or equivalent services functioning
as intended, or sabotaging it once "in play". Fair trade matters.
(Developing world education also matters, which is why User:Angela is an
anathema). That's just fact. You have no doubt seen anti-globalization and
pro-fair-trade marches on TV, and some get hurt, and some throw bricks back.

Failing to comprehend and avoid Consumerium Governance problems will, in
trolls' view, reduce the odds of success. Be absolutely clear: you are
making real-world enemies here, Tim Starling. And many real-world enemies do
in fact go so far as to kill to protect what they value. No amount of
agreement between this typist and that typist will change that in our
respective lifetimes. Insistence on technological means of arbitration only
escalates the conflicts and makes them worse. "You" as defined by your
typings, trollings and "blocks" are therefore not a person, but part of a
problem. One we intend to address by any means necessary. Your use of
technological power puts you morally in the wrong, by definition. Do not
align your body with your tools. It's a fatal mistake, and one most people
learn only when it's far too late, when they realize their tools cannot
protect them from whatever trolls they sought to silence. You are not owed
warnings - from here, it's next stop abyss. The next troll may be armed with
something more than truth and typing.

Therefore, the faction proposal, to deal with those issues of political
dispute where people violently disagree, and will do harm to each other if
not channeled into due process that respects factionally defined terms, as
such. Pursue it, or ignore it. It too is a technological stopgap. It will
work well enough for Consumerium Governance, or m:Wikipedia Governance, but
it will not solve all the world's problems. If you seek harmony, you are
best to abandon physics, software, and the Internet, and be a better
gardener.

The world tree is waiting...

-- END QUOTE --

-- Tim Starling