[WikiEN-l] How much?

Wed Jan 14 21:41:43 UTC 2004

There are other dimensions to nude images besides "offense". Consider
modesty, privacy, and chastity.

A person might not want to reveal their naked selves to others, out of
modesty. They need not be "ashamed" of their nudity; just not want to
let others see it.

Another person might feel fine about showing their nakedness to others,
provided they get to choose the others. Often people limit these
displays to a small group of intimates; in a monogamous relationship,
that group consists of one's current partner; in what is increasingly
becoming an extreme, that sole intimate partner is one's spouse (of the
opposite sex).

Even rarer, perhaps, are those who do not want to be sexually stimulated
by viewing the naked bodies of anyone other than their own spouse. I'm
really not sure how small this minority is, even in the English-speaking
West, but since I'm a member of this minority I just thought I'd mention
it; it has to do with my membership in that kooky cult I belong to.

Some people think that "salacious" images encourage an interest in sex.
They worry that too much information too early may stimulate young
people to become interested in sex at an age when they cannot channel
their interest in a healthy manner: i.e., abstaining from sex and
preparing for lifelong monogamy.

I'm really interested in two aspects of this. First, what should our
articles say about people's attitudes and beliefs about these matters?
This needs to go into articles about [[sexual morality]], [[sex
education]], etc.

Second, how should we present information and pictures in articles?
Presumably, our current audience is adults. With only 2 or 3 exceptions,
no one posting to this list has admitted to being under 21 years old.
And any kids looking for cheescake or porn can find it at other websites
in much more potent doses.

There's no question of censorship, merely of presentation. Some people
approaching a complex subject might need some simple introductory matter
before they get into the details. Likewise, some people might want to
postpone seeing really graphic images until they're ready for them. 

If I click on [[felching]], because I think it's about burping (get it?
Belching?), I might not want to be assaulted with a full color picture
of someone's tongue going, um, where the sun doesn't shine. On the other
hand, I'd feel awfully disappointed if there was nothing to click on to
see it, if I had a taste for it.

Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: Delirium [mailto:delirium at rufus.d2g.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:21 PM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How much?

Erik Moeller wrote:

>The fact that you compare human body parts to suicide methods and
>excrements is somewhat disturbing, but let's not get into this. Just
some  
>basic cause and effect. Feces are prone to carry disease, that is why
most  
>human beings are taught to avoid touching or even eating them (there
may  
>also be a biological taboo that is triggered by the smell and/or taste;

>note that baby feces smell differently). Similarly, most human beings
with  
>a functional brain avoid pain, as such, events that are likely to cause

>pain or death, as well as images of pain and death, are likely to
trigger  
>the emotional associations that have been built through a lifetime to  
>teach avoidance thereof.
>  
>
This is an argument that feces is "correctly" considered offensive, 
while those who consider nudity offensive are incorrect.  Such arguments

are completely irrelevant to the current discussion: it is not your (or 
anyone's) place to decide whether it is "natural" to avoid pain or feces

and "unnatural" to avoid nudity.  It is a simply fact that a great many 
people consider explicit close-up images of a clitoris offensive--in 
fact, perhaps there are more people who consider such photos offensive 
than there are who consider photos of feces offensive.  You can argue 
they're wrong, but I don't think that personal viewpoint ought to 
influence the encyclopedia.

In fact, I think people who consider close-up photos of a clitoris 
*appropriate* for public display are probably a fairly small minority, 
worldwide.

-Mark

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