[WikiEN-l] A problem in one of our articles with Jayjg

Wed Aug 4 00:27:29 UTC 2004

I am having some trouble with one of our new contributors,
Jayjg.  Jayjg is an ultra-Orthodox Jewish contributor, who
until recently has gotten along fine with most people. His
knowledge about many aspects of Judaism has added needed
data and perspective to a number of our articles. We both
have worked together very well on many articles; it is
always good to bring in more knowledgeable editors.

However, about two weeks ago I started having trouble with
him on a Talk page for the WikiProject on Judaism articles.
We were not disagreeing over what to put in an article.
Rather, whenever topics on theology arose, he seemed unable
to understand many of my statements, and began imputing
positions to me that I did not have and refuting positions
which I never held.

I repeatedly tried to clarify the situation, but Jayjg kept
on acting as if every statement made contained some sort of
hidden attack on his religion.  He even criticised me on
many points that we *agreed* on; that really made me
nervous. Despite this, we still got along fine with edits
on all other articles. I regarded him as a useful Wikipedia
contributor.

However in recent days his ultra-Orthodox bias against all
other forms of Judaism have overwhelmed his common sense;
Jayjg has passed from partisan bickering into vandalism: He
is effectively committing fraud by making up statements by
"the leadership of Reform Judaism", making them out to be
anti-Semites who hate Orthodox Jews. 

Now, if this were true, I would not have a problem with
mentioning the actual quotes made, the context in which
these quotes were made, and the response to them. However,
the article he links to doesn't back up his story. (In
fact, it contains no quotes from the original speech at
all, and no quotes which support his story!)

In fact, I personally have corresponded with some of the
Reform rabbis Jayjg is hysterical about, and I have read
their actual statements. The text which Jayjg keeps
inserting is some sort of paranoid fantasy about the
leadership of Reform Judaism slandering Orthodox Jews, in
general, as being as evil as terrorists like Osama bin
Ladin. Yet in point of fact, no such statement was ever
made.

The actual documented events show quite the opposite: a
number of Ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Israel issued a number
of angry pronouncements against all of Reform Judaism, on
repeated occasions, and this led to violence against Reform
Jews, death threats, and harassment. In response to this,
one single Reform rabbi wrote that those particular people
who engaged in such behaviour were like Jewish versions of
Islamic fundamentalists who encouraged violence; those
particular people were twisting their faith to promote
hatred, and did not represent mainstream Judaism. Nowhere
was there any attack on Orthodox Judaism in general, or
even on Ultra-Orthodox Judaism; rather, the author was
asking that attacks on _Reform_ Jews end!

Bizarrely, Jayjg has reversed the sequence of events, has
faked statements, and has attributed his fake statements to
the general Reform leadership! He keeps reverting the
article to remove real quotes from the rabbi in question,
and keeps deleting all discussion of the events (in all
sections of the article) that would lead to understanding
this in its historical context.

Readers should understand that many people in Jayjg's sect
of Judaism believe that any form of Orthodox or
non-Orthodox Judaism (other than their own, of course) is
dangerous and dishonest. Perhaps he feels that he has
somehow read between the lines and "uncovered" the true
beliefs of Reform Jews; perhaps he was taught this by his
teachers, and cannot believe that they misled him. If so,
then perhaps we can talk to him privately over how to write
NPOV articles, the crucial need for historical context, and
the sacred need for accurate quoting!

But until then, we cannot allow him to effectively
vandalize this article. We can't make up statements and
beliefs, and criticise people and movements for these
non-existent beliefs.

See this article:
[[Relationship between segments of Judaism]]

Robert (RK)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail