[WikiEN-l] Wik's views

Fri Nov 21 21:26:40 UTC 2003

I have only been on Wikipedia for about a week so I don't suspect that my
views are going to carry much weight.  However, I have spent a good bit of
today reviewing some of these edit wars and some of the talk pages so I
think I'll put in $.02 worth.  Wik, I would say, does not act out of spite,
but simply wants to contribute what he can to the wikipedia ensure that the
entries he works on are correct.

The problem is he is very stubborn, refusing to even give an inch when he
has decided he is correct about something.  This does show a sign of
immaturity in him, but I would not say that is a bannable offense.  He has
been in numerous edit wars with various users where both continuously revert
each others edits.  Wik's attitude seems to be that he'd rather completely
remove the contributions that he disagrees with rather than adjusting them
to be more neutral (sense that seems to be the major reasoning behind his
changes).  I have observed that such actions has caused other problems such
as portions of articles, that had no reason to be removed, being deleted
accidentally.

Obviously this situation should be dealt with in a timely fashion.  I think
the best answer would be a stricter policy on reversions and edit wars.
There have to be consequences to dissuade users from getting into these
pointless disputes.  I more immediate action to address this situation would
be to issue a warning from the site owner (Jimbo I believe) stating that Wik
must start using other methods besides reversions for a certain amount of
time to see if he can learn to be more [[diplomatic]], leastwise he would be
banned if not permanently then at least temporarily.

[[User:T-Money|T-Money]]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kosebamse at gmx.net>
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Wik's views

>
> Although there is a seemingly constant debate about [[User:Wik]]'s
conduct,
> people do not seem to care too much about the consequences of tolerating
his
> behavior. I would like to raise some concerns.
>
> It is not particularly easy to analyse Wik's contributions, as he rarely
> comments his edits and does a great number of minor changes. It is however
> obvious that he has a tendency to get involved in reversion wars, is
generally
> unwilling to discuss his views, frequently uses words like "vandals" and
> "trolls", and refuses to talk to people whom he has declared as such. I
had a long
> conversation with him over a few days (see [[User talk:Wik]], where all
the
> following quotations are taken from) and would like to report my
impressions,
> because I believe that some of the more distressing points about Wik are
not
> too obvious but should be discussed.
>
> Wik: "There is no way to reconcile POV and NPOV". When we discussed this,
he
> has made it clear that he sees it as his right to decide what "the NPOV
> version" of an article is, and to engage in reversion wars to "defend" it.
Wik:
> "As far as I know NPOV is the community norm, and I am its staunchest
> defender. And this inevitably (and regrettably) involves getting into edit
wars. What
> is the alternative, just leaving the POV version there?" He refuses to
> accept that reversion wars create unstable articles, while NPOV measures
create
> stable articles. He refuses to enter conversation with his adversaries and
has
> stated his goal of continuing reversion wars to victory. Wik: "Edit wars
> aren't endless, at some point one side gives up." Behind this attitude is
> apparently his conviction that respecting other's views is somehow "POV
relativism",
> as he likes to call it. He also seems to believe that a gradual
improvement
> of an article should not be pursued once he has unilaterally declared what
> "the NPOV version" is.
>
> Wik has a list of users he doesn't like and with whom he refuses to
discuss
> anything and whom he calls "vandals and trolls" rather frequently. He does
> not accept the hard-and-fast policy of "no personal attacks" and insists
that
> his use of such vocabulary is purely descriptive. Wik: "I'm always
talking,
> except with those people where it would be wasted time. I'm using the
terms
> vandals and trolls exactly where appropriate."
>
> When some articles where he had been engaged in reversion wars were
> protected, and others started discussing them, bridging their differences
and working
> on a compromise, Wik outright refused to ever participate in this approach
> but stated his freedom of reverting any result of their work. Despite
clear
> evidence to the contrary, he wrote: "It is a fundamental misconception to
think
> that edit wars can be solved by protecting the page and telling the people
> to discuss." This seems to be related to his condescending view of people
who
> disagree with him, as he maintains that once having declared his opinions,
> further talk would be useless, even while others were now actively
debating
> points that had been the subject of his reversions before.
>
> Wik's attitude towards his fellow Wikipedians is often rather reckless,
and
> he demonstrates disrespect of  many of Wikipedia's very foundations (NPOV,
> cooperation, policies, respect for others, Wikiquette). He has often been
told
> (by Jimbo Wales, Stan Shebs, and Angela to name only a few) that his
conduct
> is not acceptable but I can see no tendency of his to change his ways.
> Although one may try talking to him, my experience with him makes me
believe that
> he is unwilling to accept advice. He has even declared his will to "make
> [Wikipedia] less lame or be banned in the attempt". Given that by saying
"lame" he
> seems to refer to our fundamental dogmas, I see little hope that he can be
> convinced to become more collegial. I do not think that we should set a
> precedent by continuing to tolerate such conduct.
>
> Kosebamse
>
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