[WikiEN-l] Please stop abuse and trolling

Fri Jul 18 09:02:39 UTC 2003

>RK wrote

>I am asking Wikipedia Sysops to talk to PizzaPuzzle and
>Jtdirl, and ask them to stop harassing me

em . . . 1 two line message in 9 months. Some harrassment. No. Maybe 
sometime in the last 9 months I sent one or two others. A clear case of 
harrasment, then!

>by altering my
>personal user page.

em . . . altering you user page?Would that mean leaving messages by any 
chance? You mean I'm not supposed to leave messages for people? Why didn't 
someone tell me? I've been altering personal user pages all over wiki for 9 
months!

>They keep adding univited comments

You mean your user page is invite only? White tie? black tie? morning suit? 
Do you post or email the invites? Do I post or email the RSVP?

>about Israel and Palestine, that have *nothing* to do with
>any articles we are currently working on.
>
>They know that I am Jewish,

Only because you tell the entire community an average of every 7.2 seconds. 
Anyway, maybe I am too for all you know.

>and they follow me from article
>to article,

RK's comment on another user's page - (uninvited?)
'For whatever reason, EofT follows me around from topic to topic, refusing 
to actually contribute to the article, but always making personal attacks on 
me. Whatever his personal problems, I advise people to try to
distinguish between contributors who add to science articles, and trolls out 
merely incite flame wars.'

Spot a pattern?

And RK's warm and friendly tone: - 'Work productively on the encyclopedia, 
or please leave'.

I made a minor factual addition to one page about how many states do not 
accept Jerusalem as Israel's capital. (100+ don't. 3 do)  I did not say it 
wasn't, just added in a factual footnote about the diplomatic complexities 
and a careful NPOV description: 'Israel's designated capital'. Mav wrote

JT's wording seemed to be far more professional and at least a bit more 
NPOV.

RK responded.

Huh? It is grossly anti-Zionist and pro-Arab. How is lying about Israel's 
capital, and stating falsehoods, "professional"?

>constantly baiting me. This is a very lcear
>case in point: I have been working with others on the
>Creationism, Evolution, and Gaia articles. Yet their
>response?  Trolling me with comments about the Palestinians
>and "arabophobia".
>
>Huh?
>
>This abusive behaviour is clearly not aimed at improving
>our articles. It is a clear and obvious case of abuse of me
>for my Mosaic faith and beliefs.

>I am just getting tired
>of the constant Jew-baiting.

In Annie Hall, Woody Allen's character is so paranoid that he is convinced 
everyone around him is anti-jewish. When they say 'do you?' fast, he 
imagines they are saying 'jew' in a derogatory manner. But it is all a 
figment of an over excited imagination. Same here, RK.

BTW, you seem to see 'jew-baiting' all around you from the most unlikely 
sources, eg

# 15:38 3 Jul 2003 Talk:Anti-Semitism MArtin (MyRedDice) is censoring and 
deleting other user's Talk discussion. I am concerned about his attempt to 
hide his repeated acts of Jew-baiting

>There is no way an honest
>person can say that these recent comments have any logical
>connection to our work on Evolution, Creationism, Gaia,
>etc. If this behaviour isn't Jew-baiting, then
>anti-Semitism simply doesn't exist.

The rest of us can cope with somene on our talk pages touching on a 
different topic to the one we are working on without seeing it as some sort 
of personalised attack.

In contrast, for RK:

# 01:31 14 Jun 2003 Propositional knowledge (Martin, stop making changes to 
topics you nothing about, merely to spite me. That is vandalism, and 
childish.

>When I asked PizzaPuzzle to stop putting irrelevant
>comments on my Talk page

you actually said: # Removing more personal attacks by Entmoots of trools, 
and univited anti-Israel ramblings by PizzaPuzzle (I mean, Lir))

which flowed when PP wrote originally

My apologises, I just thought that your naming of the link to: "Deir Yassin 
Remembered; This pro-Palestinian site claims that there was little military 
conflict, and that 100 Arabs were flat-out murdered." was a little... 
inflammatory.

I support palestine because they have no real governmental organization or 
infrastructure. Thus, I see their violent acts as excusable since one cannot 
expect peace to originate from poverty stricken people in wartorn refugee 
camps. I oppose Israel because they most certainly do have a modern 
governmental organization (with modern and even advanced technology) and, as 
such, I expect them to hold to a much higher level of civility.

>I got this baiting response:
>
>So comments that question Israel aren't welcome on your
>talk page? Is there no limit to your arabophobia?
>[[User:Jtdirl|FearÉIREANN]] 01:39 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)
>

All because, having attacked me, Anthere, Martin and most of wiki it seems, 
even a polite observation from PP, which opened with an apology, was still 
too 'anti-Israel' for you, hence my comment. I stand by it. And no it is not 
anti-semitic, an attack on your religious beliefs, following you around, 
abusing you or anything else. It is questioning why you cannot even tolerate 
a little criticism of Israel without deleting it, not merely in articles but 
even on your talk page.

>This is a real problem. I am asking others to become a part
>of the solution.

OK Some advice.

1. Please do not censor and delete other people's comments.
2. Please, don't push personal religious beliefs into the editing process.
3. You really have a serious problem, and you need to confront it.
4. Sadly, many religious fundamentalists get filled with anger when they are 
confronted with points of view that differ from from their own.

The person who wrote all these as advice to others is RK.

JT

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