[Foundation-l] Fair use images

Fri Mar 10 23:43:23 UTC 2006

On 3/10/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/10/06, Anthony DiPierro <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> [snip]
> > I'm suggesting that this be the policy, of course.  That ND images
> > only be used in situations where there is no free alternative, i.e.
> > the situations where fair use is supposed to be limited to right now.
>
> Not where their can be no free alternative but where we haven't found one yet.

Well, not really.  I think fair use (and by extension, ND), should
only be used where there *isn't* a free alternative (and likely won't
ever be).

> Fair use isn't a license to liberally violate copyright, "We don't
> have one yet" isn't a valid excuse to claim fair use. Or, more
> clearly, it is necessary but not sufficient.
>
"We don't have a free alternative yet" has basically nothing to do
with whether or not the use is actually fair use.  But it should be
(and I believe it is) a necessary condition set by Wikipedia.  It's
Wikipedia policy, not law.

> > I never suggested replacing free images with non-free ones.
>
> You want to make it possible for people who think they are helping
> Wikipedia to submit unfree content where free content is possible.
>
No, I don't.  I frankly don't know where you're getting that from
because I've continually expressed exactly the opposite.

> > > The only people I've ever encountered that had interest in by-nd were
> > > photographers I found on forums and nagged to come submit works to
> > > wikipedia.
> >
> > Count me as a first, then.
>
> And what content do you hold the copyright to that we currently use as
> fair use... You claim that you only want us to use BY-ND where we use
> fair use, so show me an example.
>
I guess I misunderstood your statement.  I don't personally have any
images on the Wikipedia that I own the copyright to and haven't
released under a free license.

> The goal of Wikipedia is to create a free content encyclopedia. By
> deciding that you will only release your content under an unfree
> license you are deciding not to help Wikipedia with its goals, at
> least in the area of illustrations.  That okay, you are not obligated
> morally or legally to help.   But don't lobby us to change the rules
> so that you can claim, dishonestly, to be helping with our project.
>
If non-free images don't help Wikipedia, then why does Wikipedia allow
them at all?

> If we ever swallow a stupid pill and permit you to upload ND works
> simply because we haven't found a more free image yet, I promise
> replace every last one with a free image, even if I have to travel the
> world to do it, just to piss you off.

Well, there are some images for which getting a free alternative is impossible.

But hey, if I believed you, that alone would be a good reason to
implement the policy.  I'm not sure why you think replacing non-free
images with free ones would piss me off.

Anthony