Moin, On Wednesday 14 June 2006 18:07, Steve Bennett wrote: Yes. The nice things about templates is that you can do tricks like editing this page: http://bloodgate.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Slides And all the presentation slides will be updated automatically. So, I probably missed half of the argumentation, but why is the performance problem more important than the saved human work? best wishes, tels -- Signed on Wed Jun 14 18:18:36 2006 with key 0x93B84C15. Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/ PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email. "If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot of different places, just write a Unix operating system." -- Linus Torvalds

On 14/06/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote: When an uncached form of the parsed markup is needed, or when the cache expires next, the entire page will be re-parsed, during which time the transclusion will be parsed as well. An edit or purge before that time will cause invalidation of all the cached forms for that page. Rob Church

On 14/06/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote: As far as I know, and this might have changed since I last read it, but it's all reparsed. What part of the email I sent implies it's "so slow"? I'm not sure that would provide a long term benefit. If there's no need, then don't do it. It has been stated time and time again that, when the development or system administration teams make policies, they are usually going to be software enforced. If you need something done for editorial reasons, *go ahead and do it.* It's your job to write the damn encyclopaedia, and it's our job to worry about the software and servers coping with it. Need to transclude {{x}} into 30,000 pages? Do it. Utilise common sense and avoid changing it too much, sure; but don't act like you shouldn't actually make use of the software. That's a stupid attitude. Rob Church

On 14/06/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote: Never underestimate the ability of humans to emulate that which goes "baa". Substituting templates should be done when the template is being used as a boilerplate or in cases where, for instance, it'll never need to be changed again. Something like a vandalism warning, as an example, isn't going to need to be changed in all locations, so substituting it is more appropriate, not to mention, if it's a "testX" template, then the user can hit edit and start to understand how the site works, not be confronted with a brace substitution. Templates as tags, et al. do need to be changed so that things are consistent, and should use regular transclusion. I can't speak for the developers as a team. We all have our own opinions about what's "neat" and "clean" from a technical standpoint. For what it's worth, however, Brion Vibber has expressed a previous opinion that fragile editorial constructs are...fragile (spoken from the perspective of an editor, I think) and that policies shouldn't be dictated based on what people believe the server load to be. Rob Church

On 15/06/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote: IMO, if it sounds feasible, hold off or cut down on it, but attempt to check with a developer or one of the network operations staff as soon as possible. Rob Church