> This is an excellent suggestion; I invite the list
> to tell
> me if they see any problems with implementing it.
> If not, I'll
> do it.
I agree that #DEPRECATED is a good idea, but could we
come up with a command that's a bit less *technical*
and a bit more understandable by non-native English
speakers...? I thought of #OBSOLETE or #OLD or
something similar, but I'm not sure what would be
best... any ideas? Also, it would be nice if there
were an interface so you can see all the redirects and
choose those easily which should be switched over...
at least this would still work on the non-English
Wikipedias! :-)
Chuck
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Would it make sense, as I've been experiencing bandwidth limitations, on
occasion, (assuming the problem may be general) to limit, by some ratio, the
server request speed to anon users, and thereby allowing logged in users
some degree of greater access?
-Stevertigo
> Did you read the "echiquier du mal" from Dan Simmons
> ? Absolutely amazing book !
Hmmm... you should write something about it on
bookshelved.org. I met the owner of that weekend when
I visited Paris... So, this book will go on my list
of books to read if I ever learn French. :-) I
really want to read _Le defi des langues - Du gachis
au bon sens_ by Claude Piron as well... there's also a
book in Dutch I want to read, but I can't remember the
title...
Chuck
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Erik wrote:
>I like the French design. One thing it demonstrates
>quite well is how protecting pages reduces the
>potential for progress. I checked the history: the
>French design is the result of a fairly amazing
>evolution, which is not possible on the English
>Wikipedia because the main page is protected.
What? Formatting ideas for en.wiki's Main Page are worked out on the
unprotected Main /Temp Page at
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page/Temp . The new design that went live
on Wikipedia Day was worked on by about a dozen different people - most of
whom were not sysops.
So except for the daily updates to the Selected Articles section, the en.wiki
Main Page is effectively editable by anybody. However we don't update the
live Main Page until the development version has stabilized. That is how it
should be /even if/ we had the live Main Page world-editable.
>I, Mav and Enchanter have been experimenting
>with using similar colored tables for the English main
>page. One problem I have with the current French
>design is while the colors are pretty, they don't seem
>to mean much. Maybe the yellow that is used for
>special+talk+wikipedia pages should come to be
>identified with the community.
That is how the development version of the en.wiki Main Page is set-up
already. See: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page/Temp
I'm not totally thrilled with the background color for the Selected Articles
box since the light blue doesn't mean anything and is only there to be
pretty. But removing that background color makes for a sterile Main Page
again (except for the light yellow background for the Community area) .
Perhaps we could artificially make light blue meaningful by having the
"official" colors of en.wiki be white, blue and yellow (white for articles,
blue for hyperlinks and yellow for "community pages"). And while we are at it
we could also develop a mascot and a flag. :-)
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
WikiKarma
Added a bunch of events to [[February 15]]; updated all the year pages and
many of the other articles linked from that page.
Erik wrote:
>I know that both, Mav. My problem is that,
>while a temp editable page is nice, unless
>you catch it in RC, you can't know that it
>exists. See also my earlier posting "Getting
>rid of protected pages".
>
>Regards,
>
>Erik
OK that is easy to fix: Just change the text that now
says "Protected Page" to non-Admins to "Development
Version" and make that a link to Main Page/Temp. The
same thing can be setup for all the other protected
pages too. No fancy delayed submit needed.
--Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
WikiKarma
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-hero (new)
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Jay wrote:
>Daniel Mayer wrote:
>>Perhaps we could artificially make
>>light blue meaningful by having the
>>"official" colors of en.wiki be white,
>>blue and yellow (white for articles,
>>blue for hyperlinks and yellow for
>>"community"). And while we are at it
>>we could also develop a mascot and a
>>flag. :-)
>
>A native Hawaiian critter would be neat!
>but whats this about a "flag" why would
>we need a flag, does Linux have a flag?
>Hmmm... The penguin thing is very clever.
>Something like that for Wiki would be
>very welcome, the French Wiki has
>a Peace Dove if I understand the symbol
>correctly, anything to do with quick "wiki
>wiki", what do you think?
>
>Since,
>Jay B.
I love the Hawaiian critter idea! One problem though:
sadly most 'native' Hawaiian animals are either
endangered or extinct while Wikipedia is far from
either - we are thriving. This may take a good deal of
research, luck and a damn good artist.
A flag isn't as important - [[Wikipedia is not]] a
micronation. ;-)
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
WikiKarma:
I updated all the year pages and many of the other
articles linked from [[February 16]].
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> I know that "le mort" is the correct term in French,
> but the literal
> translation doesn't work here. In English we call it
> "the dummy".
I still think the funniest game term in French is that
in chess the French call the bishop, fou (crazy
person). In Esperanto, it's called kuriero (the
messenger). I learned that when I was in France,
playing chess in Esperanto... heh Maybe we could put
something in the chess article about the etymologies
of those names... ;-)
I heard that the bishop increased his power from two
squares diagonally when the church increased in power,
but this wouldn't make sense based on the French name
of the piece... and at that time I think French was
the language of chess... (maybe it still is!)
Chuck
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The Melbourne Herald Sun, which bills itself as "Australia's biggest
selling daily newspaper," will be running a big article about
wikipedia in Sunday's Herald Sun.
There will be a photo of me, so if anyone down under wants to get a
copy and send it to me (for my mom!) that'd be great.
And we might want to "staff up" for Sunday morning, in case of a rush
of newcomers... I know I'll pop in a few times throughout the day to
meet and greet.
As those in the know, er, know, on Wikipedia there's a preprocessor
syntax trick known as the 'pipe trick' which strips parentheticals,
usually disambiguators, from the display of a link:
[[kingdom (biology)|]]
turns into:
[[kingdom (biology)|kingdom]]
so that it shows in the text as simply "kingdom", which is usually what
you want.
It's a nice trick, but there are two things wrong with this system:
First, since the replacement is done at save time instead of at display
time, newbies (who learn the finer points of wiki syntax primarily by
looking at how existing articles are written) can't learn the trick
without hearing about it or poring through the documentation. The tilde
signature system has the same problem; we have to tell newbies about it.
Second, and more importantly, *it's backwards.*
The overwhelming majority of the time we link to a page whose title has
a parenthetical in it, we want to hide the parenthetical and let the
main word stand alone. I'd be very hard pressed to think of a
counter-example that isn't a demonstration of the pipe trick or a
discussion about how to phrase a disambiguation.
Wouldn't it be more sensible if [[kingdom (biology)]] _automatically_
displayed as "kingdom", and in the much rarer cases we had to add a pipe
to force the long form?
After all, we don't need to add a special character to hide the
brackets! They're just part of the markup, telling the wiki parser that
it's dealing with a link. Parentheticals are essentially just more
markup, telling the parser that the link should point to one of several
otherwise ambiguously identified pages.
Thoughts, comments?
What about handling of namespaces and interwiki links? Currently they're
displayed be default, and the pipe trick strips them just like
parentheticals.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
LDC wrote:
>I should be subscribed now.
>....
Welcome back!
>....
>The syntax of a language intended for
>non-technical folks should be as simple
>and unsurprizing as possible.
I agree.
>If we can throw a bone to the old hands
>now and then to make their job easier too,
>that's fine--that's why I added the pipe
>trick in the first place.
An extension of the pipe trick to also work with comma
titles - perhaps. :)
>....
>What I /would/ support is changing the
>piped syntax so that it was interpreted
>at render time rather than save time; so
>that, for example, [[Mercury (planet) | ]]
>would remain in the page source code as is,
>rather than being expanded right away.
Hm. I think you have convinced me. It is not much
extra work at all to simply place a pipe after the
closing parens. And if this syntax is kept as is then
newbies are much more likely to discover this trick on
their own - in the same way as they quickly discover
that ''' placed before and after a term bolds the term
when it is displayed. Keep it simple.
--Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
WikiKarma:
Added a bunch of events to [[February 12]] and updated
all the year and many of the other articles linked
from that page.
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