The deletion process can get quite complex, I know many folks get discouraged by it. My
experience in the matter has been to avoid a defensive stance although the entity might be
* clearly * notable. It works sometimes for me :)
Since this is obviously a matter many people struggle with, other folks are probably going
to want to join the call too.
@Justice Okai-Allotey Might you be interested to organize something larger so Asaf can
talk to the community at large.
If this doesn’t happen, A+F recorded a session recently about “engaging in deletion
discussion” that could be helpful to many:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Art_%2B_Feminism_Community_Hours_-_…
-Masssly
From: Asaf Bartov
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:47 PM
To: Wikimedia Ghana User Group
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-GH] Deletion of Article
Okay, yes, let's separate these two issues, because they are actually quite distinct:
1. Notability is a yes/no question, which needs to be established (just once, for the
entire lifetime of the article) using only reliable sources, dealing directly with the
subject, but independent of the article subject. (This was also covered in the training
in Ghana.)
2. NPOV, on the other hand, is *not* a yes/no question, but a general bar you have to meet
*in each and every sentence of the article* (except inside quotations etc.), and that can
rely on all sorts of sources and even no sources at all. (e.g. "X is a Ghanaian
singer" is perfectly *neutral* even without sources. It won't be enough to
establish *notability*, but those are separate questions.)
I deliberately asked about NPOV, because I recognize that Notability is made tougher to
establish for African subjects because of relative paucity of sources on the one hand, and
possible bias on the other hand. This person may or may not be notable -- I have no idea
and haven't done research myself -- but it is concerning that your article was also
found to be promotional. The reason I am concerned is that *even though* the two
questions are logically distinct and, properly, should be judged separately, in practice
if a patroller sees an article with what they perceive as a blatantly promotional tone,
they *would* be a lot more suspicious of the article's notability as well.
So, you can obtain the article text via [[WP:UND]], and then we can perhaps schedule a
call to rebiew it and have a discussion, and either fix it if it needs fixing, or learn
from it if it can't be fixed and look for more notable subjects. I am generally
flexible these days, and am in the UTC+3 time zone. Are there days/times that would be
particularly convenient for you (plural, any of you who may be interested)?
A.
Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)
Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:13 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <owulakpakpo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Asaf,
Unfortunately, I don't have a save text of the article I wrote for Michael Aboya and
no I wasn't paid to edit that article, I made a judgement of notability from what I
saw about him online.
Also, I made sure everything I wrote was from a neutral point of view, I sent it to a few
experienced editors in our community to check my text if I had missed something and from
the response, I got it wasn't promotional. For Michael Aboya I found so many articles
from secondary sources speaking about him but it still got deleted because to
those editors he should have done something major. He won a global photography competition
so I thought that is something noteworthy to write about.
I would be glad to get a refresher on NPOV but a lot of the times it has more to do with
Notability and how to determine it within the several contexts.
Regards,
Justice.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:57 PM Asaf Bartov <abartov(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
As the article has already been deleted, I can't see and judge for myself. But there
was mention of promotional language in the discussion about Michael Aboya, at least. Was
there indeed promotional language? If so, how come? I know for a fact you know how to
write NPOV text, because I remember personally demonstrating it in Ghana, with you in the
room. Was indeed a paid editing job? Did you not notice you were using non-NPOV
language?
(If it's the latter, I am happy to offer a call where we can go over this again --
perhaps even fix the article, if you have a saved copy -- to make sure future efforts of
yours don't end up with text that is encyclopedically unacceptable.)
I'm interested in helping resolve this. Obviously, resolving this can't require
breaking Wikipedia's rules, though.
Cheers,
A.
Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)
Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all
knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:00 PM Justice Okai-Allotey <owulakpakpo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
I started a conversation on our Telegram chat group about getting my articles (User:Owula
kpakpo) tagged for deletion by one editor (User:Versace1608) and other editors like
(User:Kwamevaughan) also expressed same sentiments about getting articles his written
tagged for deletion.
In other to settle this and get a community response to such issues in the future and how
we can settle issues of notability criteria within our contest as Ghanaians. Another
volunteer (User:Enock4seth) asked that it be shared here so we can properly document such
discussions for later.
Find links to the various articles under scrutiny below. Also, feel free to add any
further information to this discussion so we can properly deal with it moving forward.
Regards,
Justice.
[1]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:B4b…
[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Ghana
[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Camidoh
[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Aboya
--
Regards
Justice Okai-Allotey
Freelance Digital Marketer
Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey
|Avenger - Urithi Labs|
|Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group|
|Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey | Facebook: Justice
Okai-Allotey | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo |
|Website:
https://about.me/okai-allotey|
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Regards
Justice Okai-Allotey
Freelance Digital Marketer
Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey
|Avenger - Urithi Labs|
|Social Media Lead - Wikimedia Ghana User Group|
|Linkedin: Justice Okai-Allotey | Facebook: Justice
Okai-Allotey | Twitter: @Owula_Kpakpo |
|Website:
https://about.me/okai-allotey|
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