We've all been beating around the bush here, the real question is: What _specifically_ will the chapter allow us to accomplish, that we can't do now?

Taking what's been said on list and on wiki, we've got three specifics

1) GSOC - Great, this will definitely be a good thing.
2) Toolserver - Well, it's going to be a long and expensive process to get that going (Say at least 3-5k a year, just for a baby setup).  We (the general Wikimedia community) already have one anyways, so it isn't like there is a dire need for this.
3) Equipment for events - The example used was being unable to get equipment from the Foundation for Maker Faire.  While this isn't entirely correct, we'll roll with it.  Anyways, we've got a bunch of very technical people whom all have spare electronics which we can throw together (and will, should the need arise).  Moving on from Maker Faire specifically - I can't think of _any_ other events the NorCal group has attended where we've needed any sort of equipment beyond a single laptop.

Looking at the talk page "examples":
4) Recruit people - Ok, that sounds like GSOC - any other specifics?
5) Accelerate projects - Well I've got devious plans to abuse this Chapter for the aid and benefit of Wikinews, but that isn't exactly high on anyones list.  Besides that "acquiring, and benchmarking a variety of hardware platforms" ??  I'm sorry, but you're talking about projects that can costs into the 10 of thousands of dollars - there is _no_ way our chapter is going to pull this off unless someone has TIGHT connections with a major hardware vendor.
6) Outreach Functions - Currently we can get into a lot of events simply by saying "We're Wikipedia, will you give us free pass?"
7) Fundraising - Well, yes, we'll need to do this to support the chapter itself... but that does't actually assist us in anyway currently.
8) Legitimacy - Can't argue with this one, real 501c3 gets us a lot more legitimacy.  But who are we going to use this with?  Right now I can say I'm a volunteer for the Foundation and get 80% of what I need.  The other 20% I've not even bothered with... so I'm not really needing the more legitimate title.

-Jon

Again, I'm not trying to trod on anyone personally, or dash any hopes & dreams.  Just trying to pull out the _real need_ before we go forth and suffer the process of trying to get this started.

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 14:31, James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom@gmail.com> wrote:
>...
> You should only consider going creating a chapter *now* if, after
> thoughtful consideration, you come to the conclusion that a chapter is
> the best way to move forward with what you want to accomplish.
> Identify the issues first, then think if a chapter is the best
> solution to solve these issues. I would suggest to make a list on
> meta:
>
> * What do you want to accomplish? and for each item:
> ** Could this be accomplished today by an informal group of Wikimedians?
> ** If no, why not?
> ** How would a chapter solve this issue?
> ** What other means is there to solve this issue?

Again, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_California has
the general answers (for projects which have already been suggested)
to the first of these questions.  If the answers to why an informal
group could not accomplish the tasks listed or how a chapter could are
not clear, please let me know.

As for other means of addressing those issues, so far I have not seen
anyone except Phoebe and Jon obtain any sucess through an informal
process. For example when I was asked to obtain quotes for LCDs and a
projector for Maker Faire, I did so, and asked the San Francisco list
about who would be obtaining the specified equipment, I was told in no
uncertain terms that I should not be asking the Foundation.  In fact,
I've been rebuffed on more than one occasion for asking for what I
thought would be fairly simple things.  I understand the reasons now,
but they were not clear at the time.

This has convinced me that we should be following the established
Foundation chapter grants process instead of simply using informal
email or IRC to ask Foundation staff to obtain the requirements for
the projects which have been proposed.  Is there any evidence to the
contrary?

Regards,
James

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Jon
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