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BBC article on Flagged Revisions

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Re: [WikiEN-l] I can't live with...

William King

26 Jan 2009 26 Jan '09

3:16 p.m.

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm William King (Willking1979)

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David Gerard

26 Jan 26 Jan

7:28 p.m.

2009/1/26 William King <williamcarlking(a)gmail.com>om>:

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm

Apparently they called Michael Peel of WMUK but didn't use the comment ... - d.

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Philip Sandifer

11:53 p.m.

On Jan 26, 2009, at 10:16 AM, William King wrote:

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm

I'm sure there's context for the photo, but I still have to wonder why, of all the photos of Jimbo that exist in the world, they picked the one of him in a dress. -Phil

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Carcharoth

27 Jan 27 Jan

12:11 a.m.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 26, 2009, at 10:16 AM, William King wrote:

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm

I'm sure there's context for the photo, but I still have to wonder why, of all the photos of Jimbo that exist in the world, they picked the one of him in a dress.

I think it is a Chinese top. Carcharoth

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Thomas Larsen

12:31 a.m.

Hi,

I think it is a Chinese top.

Yes, I think you're right. —Thomas Larsen

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Philip Sandifer

12:37 a.m.

On Jan 26, 2009, at 7:11 PM, Carcharoth wrote:

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com

wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 10:16 AM, William King wrote:

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm

I'm sure there's context for the photo, but I still have to wonder why, of all the photos of Jimbo that exist in the world, they picked the one of him in a dress.

I think it is a Chinese top.

As I said, I'm sure there is context - I would assume it was from the Taipei Wikimania, etc. And that it is cropped so that it looks more feminine than it probably actually did. Still, the BBC picked a photo where he appears to be wearing a dress. And this was not for lack of other options. -Phil

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David Gerard

12:45 a.m.

2009/1/27 Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com>om>:

As I said, I'm sure there is context - I would assume it was from the Taipei Wikimania, etc. And that it is cropped so that it looks more feminine than it probably actually did. Still, the BBC picked a photo where he appears to be wearing a dress. And this was not for lack of other options.

BBC journalists are actually very nice people, and (because they're not working for advertisers) do try very hard to do a good job. However, they've had so many ridiculous cutbacks that stuff is done very fast and semicompetently. This is why the writing on news.bbc.co.uk verges on the semiliterate these days. Thankfully they're willing to take corrections. But I would suggest assuming good faith, i.e. it really was the first picture they found in the pile. - d.

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Thomas Dalton

12:48 a.m.

2009/1/27 David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>om>:

2009/1/27 Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com>om>:

As I said, I'm sure there is context - I would assume it was from the Taipei Wikimania, etc. And that it is cropped so that it looks more feminine than it probably actually did. Still, the BBC picked a photo where he appears to be wearing a dress. And this was not for lack of other options.

BBC journalists are actually very nice people, and (because they're not working for advertisers) do try very hard to do a good job. However, they've had so many ridiculous cutbacks that stuff is done very fast and semicompetently. This is why the writing on news.bbc.co.uk verges on the semiliterate these days. Thankfully they're willing to take corrections. But I would suggest assuming good faith, i.e. it really was the first picture they found in the pile.

I think it's a good photo - having our founder wearing non-Western clothing shows how international we are.

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Carcharoth

12:55 a.m.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

2009/1/27 Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com>om>:

As I said, I'm sure there is context - I would assume it was from the Taipei Wikimania, etc. And that it is cropped so that it looks more feminine than it probably actually did. Still, the BBC picked a photo where he appears to be wearing a dress. And this was not for lack of other options.

BBC journalists are actually very nice people, and (because they're not working for advertisers) do try very hard to do a good job. However, they've had so many ridiculous cutbacks that stuff is done very fast and semicompetently. This is why the writing on news.bbc.co.uk verges on the semiliterate these days. Thankfully they're willing to take corrections. But I would suggest assuming good faith, i.e. it really was the first picture they found in the pile.

Yeah, but it was a GETTY image! Why not a freely licensed image? :-) A cropped version was used here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/battle-to-outgun-wikipedia-an… Carcharoth

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Scientia Potentia est

1:12 a.m.

Probably too lazy to deal with all the GFDL stuff we keep hounding them about. :) bibliomaniac15 --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> wrote: From: Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] BBC article on Flagged Revisions To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 4:55 PM On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

2009/1/27 Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com>om>: > As I said, I'm sure there is context - I would assume it was from

the

Taipei Wikimania, etc. And that it is cropped so that it looks more feminine than it probably actually did. Still, the BBC picked a photo where he appears to be wearing a dress. And this was not for lack of other options.

BBC journalists are actually very nice people, and (because they're not working for advertisers) do try very hard to do a good job. However, they've had so many ridiculous cutbacks that stuff is done very fast and semicompetently. This is why the writing on news.bbc.co.uk verges on the semiliterate these days. Thankfully they're willing to take corrections. But I would suggest assuming good faith, i.e. it really was the first picture they found in the pile.

Yeah, but it was a GETTY image! Why not a freely licensed image? :-) A cropped version was used here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/battle-to-outgun-wikipedia-an… Carcharoth _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Alvaro García

1:58 a.m.

WHY ON EARTH is Jimbo wearing a Japanese dress? -- Alvaro On 26-01-2009, at 20:53, Philip Sandifer <snowspinner(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 26, 2009, at 10:16 AM, William King wrote:

The BBC has an article on the Flagged Revisions controversy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7851400.stm

I'm sure there's context for the photo, but I still have to wonder why, of all the photos of Jimbo that exist in the world, they picked the one of him in a dress. -Phil _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Gwern Branwen

2:08 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Alvaro García wrote:

WHY ON EARTH is Jimbo wearing a Japanese dress?

Excuse me. Jimbo wearing a 'Japanese dress' would look more like this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:JimmyWales_wearing… In the BBC article, Jimbo is not wearing anything Japanese, but rather wearing a traditional - almost stereotypical - Chinese garment called a qipao (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cheongsam ). - -- gwern

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Carcharoth

10:28 a.m.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Gwern Branwen <gwern0(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Alvaro García wrote:

WHY ON EARTH is Jimbo wearing a Japanese dress?

Excuse me. Jimbo wearing a 'Japanese dress' would look more like this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:JimmyWales_wearing… In the BBC article, Jimbo is not wearing anything Japanese, but rather wearing a traditional - almost stereotypical - Chinese garment called a qipao (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cheongsam).

Or maybe the male equivalent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changshan Carcharoth

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Gwern Branwen

2:17 p.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Carcharoth wrote:

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Gwern Branwen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Alvaro García wrote: >> WHY ON EARTH is Jimbo wearing a Japanese dress? > > Excuse me. Jimbo wearing a 'Japanese dress' would look more like this: >

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:JimmyWales_wearing…

In the BBC article, Jimbo is not wearing anything Japanese, but rather wearing a traditional - almost stereotypical - Chinese garment called a qipao (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cheongsam).

Or maybe the male equivalent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changshan Carcharoth

An easy mistake indeed. But didn't you know Jimbo always cross-dresses for major occasions to underline the subversiveness of Wikipedia and as a shout-out to its many LBGT editors? (But seriously, the Cheongsam article didn't make clear that it referred only to female garments. Time to go edit it...) - -- gwern

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Nathan

2:45 p.m.

Of the two articles that I've read, neither get all the facts right - but the BBC one is pretty terrible. It doesn't mention the poll, refers to Jimmy's statement as coming "from a blog" (misattributing a source, unless it was crossposted from his talkpage), using a strange and distracting image, failing to describe the scope of the problem, incorrectly stating that the proposal comes from Jimmy, etc. Can't imagine why the article doesn't have a byline... Nathan

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Sam Korn

2:55 p.m.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It doesn't mention the poll, refers to Jimmy's statement as coming "from a blog" (misattributing a source, unless it was crossposted from his talkpage),

FWIW, there is a link in the right-hand column direct to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Why_I_am_asking_Flagged_… describing it as a blog entry. One of the problems with being an expert in anything (be it Wikipedia, nuclear physics, theology or cricket) is that you notice terrible journalism in your field! Sam -- Sam PGP public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sam_Korn/public_key

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Kurt Maxwell Weber

3:20 p.m.

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 08:55, Sam Korn wrote:

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It doesn't mention the poll, refers to Jimmy's statement as coming "from a blog" (misattributing a source, unless it was crossposted from his talkpage),

FWIW, there is a link in the right-hand column direct to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Why_I_am_asking_Flagged_ Revisions_to_be_turned_on_now describing it as a blog entry.

And, functionally, that IS a blog entry. -- Kurt Weber <kmw(a)armory.com>

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Carcharoth

2:51 p.m.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Gwern Branwen <gwern0(a)gmail.com> wrote: [Chinese clothing]

An easy mistake indeed. But didn't you know Jimbo always cross-dresses for major occasions to underline the subversiveness of Wikipedia and as a shout-out to its many LBGT editors? (But seriously, the Cheongsam article didn't make clear that it referred only to female garments. Time to go edit it...)

There are political overtones as well. Apparently this sort of clothing is not common in mainland China since the Cultural Revolution. Though places like Hong Kong and Taiwan presumably still use it. But this is getting off-topic. Back to Flagged Revisions. What is the latest news? Carcharoth

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Alvaro García

12:11 p.m.

Oops, my mistake! But let me tell you a Kimono is not a dress. There are Japanese dresses too. -- Alvaro On 26-01-2009, at 23:08, Gwern Branwen <gwern0(a)gmail.com> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Alvaro García wrote:

WHY ON EARTH is Jimbo wearing a Japanese dress?

Excuse me. Jimbo wearing a 'Japanese dress' would look more like this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/File:JimmyWales_wearing… In the BBC article, Jimbo is not wearing anything Japanese, but rather wearing a traditional - almost stereotypical - Chinese garment called a qipao (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cheongsam ). - -- gwern

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brewhaha%40edmc.net

1:35 a.m.

E-mailing revisions to an author concerned with the article you want to revise would do about the same thing, plus, rather than having a few volunteers for the process and the resulting Jerman experience with a backlog and weeks of delay, that author might hav time to offer feedback, including the potential for a personal block or a polite refusal to be your proxy.

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Gwern Branwen

2:01 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:35 PM, brewhaha%40edmc.net wrote:

E-mailing revisions to an author concerned with the article you want to revise would do about the same thing, plus, rather than having a few volunteers for the process and the resulting Jerman experience with a backlog and weeks of delay, that author might hav time to offer feedback, including the potential for a personal block or a polite refusal to be your proxy.

So you would add yet another layer of bureaucracy? At that point - having to manually email in diffs and change them based on an editor's say-so - it's about as easy to contribute to a Wikipedia article as a Knol article. In case you don't follow me: with any system that makes contributing as much of an ordeal as that, we can basically kiss goodbye to anonymous edits. At that point, it'd be more efficient to ban anonymous edits altogether. - -- gwern

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Alvaro García

11:43 a.m.

It's "have", not "hav". -- Alvaro On 26-01-2009, at 22:35, "brewhaha%40edmc.net" <brewhaha(a)edmc.net> wrote:

E-mailing revisions to an author concerned with the article you want to revise would do about the same thing, plus, rather than having a few volunteers for the process and the resulting Jerman experience with a backlog and weeks of delay, that author might hav time to offer feedback, including the potential for a personal block or a polite refusal to be your proxy. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Sam Blacketer

11:48 a.m.

On 1/27/09, Alvaro García <alvareo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It's "have", not "hav".

Unless you are Nigel Molesworth, hem hem. -- Sam Blacketer

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Alvaro García

12:09 p.m.

Hehe, just looked him up on Wikipedia. -- Alvaro On 27-01-2009, at 8:48, Sam Blacketer <sam.blacketer(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

On 1/27/09, Alvaro García <alvareo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It's "have", not "hav".

Unless you are Nigel Molesworth, hem hem. -- Sam Blacketer _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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23 comments

14 participants

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participants (14)

Alvaro García
brewhaha%40edmc.net
Carcharoth
David Gerard
Gwern Branwen
Kurt Maxwell Weber
Nathan
Philip Sandifer
Sam Blacketer
Sam Korn
Scientia Potentia est
Thomas Dalton
Thomas Larsen
William King