Peter in Canberra wrote: I think this is a great example of a situation where conflicts over content intersect with personal attacks. Since we have been talking about both, I think that it is worth talking about how the various views expressed by different people on the list-serve might apply to this case. For starts, I will present two extreme approaches -- but I hope others will suggest more nuanced approaches. I am not suggesting we of the list-serve formally intervene in this situation. I am suggesting that if we consider different hypothetical interventions, it might help us arrive at a clearer understanding of current policy, or might suggest new policies. First approach: No personal attacks, period. In this particular exchange, Peter in Canberra (Skyring) has not said anything that would constitute a personal attack. If this went to arbitration, Adam Carr would certainly be sanctioned in some way, and Skyring might not be sanctioned at all. Second approach: We rely on the community to police the quality of the contents of articles. Adam Carr tried to, in a reasonable fashion: From the article's talk page: Skyring's response is, in my opinion, bizarre: Now, I do not consider myself partisan in this matter -- but yesterday I did some checking and provided the list-serve with evidence that suggest that this claim, "the fact is the constitution says the CG is the Queen's representative." Skyring did not respond to me; TBSDY did respond, but only to confirm my sense that Australia is not a republic. Now, it seems to me that at this juncture the discussion can no longer be reasonable. Adam Carr is not doing original research. He is providing verifiable information and providing his source, the Australian constitution. Skyring is not claiming that Adam Carr has violated our NPOV policy, nor our NOR, verifiability, or cite sources policies. Skyring is simply saying that Adam Carr is wrong -- immediately after Adam Carr provided evidence. Michael Snow suggested (at this point) that Adam Carr is giving a reasonable paraphrase of the constitution; Skyring repeats that the Australian constitution does not say what Adam Carr says it says. So there are two ways to understand Skyring's position: either evidence does not matter, or paraphrasing is impermissible. I believe that either one of these positions does damage to the quality of Wikipedia articles. Skyring won't budge, though. So what is Adam Carr to do now? From my own experience, mediation would not help -- when CheeseDream and I went into mediation, the mediator made it clear that he wasn't judging content but rather trying to help us work together. But the problem here is not that Adam Carr and Skyring cannot get along or work together harmoniously -- that this may appear to be the case is only a side-effect of the real problem: Skyring is a problem editor who disregards evidence and flat-out rejects the edits of an editor who is following all of our policies. Adam Carr becomes hostile: Now, here is a crucial moment in the argument: Skyring does not respond with anything that would be considered a "personal attack." But he continues to misconstrue Adam's position, and continues to insist on absurd principles: And it is at this point that Adam makes the personal attack of which Skyring complains. So here is the second -- admittedly extreme -- position: (1) from the perspective of "content," what Skyring has written is as offensive, if not more offensive (since the whole point of Wikipedia is to develop a high-quality encyclopedia) than any personal attack, and (2) what appears to be a personal attack on the part of Adam Carr is simply an example of how members of the community, acting in their anarchic, unregulated way, try to protect the quality of articles after reasonable, polite efforts have failed. I believe that both positions I have hypothesized are extreme. I hope members of the list-serve can present alternatives, and discuss this case as a means for clarifying our ideas about policies and procedures. Steve Steven L. Rubenstein Associate Professor Department of Sociology and Anthropology Bentley Annex Ohio University Athens, Ohio 45701