Durova-- I know this mailing list has gotten heated, but please believe me when I say it really isn't about blame. Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, it's not. I think you were a great admin. To my knowledge, I only encountered you in on-wiki disputes twice, and in both cases, you were completely in the right. Even though we disagreed with on philosophical issues, you were always civil, and you were on the shortlist of candidates I was going to vote for you for arbcom. Assuming we get some clarity about what sort of secret list/secret evidence behavior is appropriate, I very possibly will find myself being an ardent supporter of yours come RFA time-- I know you probably think I'm being insincere when I say that, but stranger things have happened. Unflagging civility despite any circumstances makes a big dang impression on me. It's not about blame-- it's about oversight. The community ruled very strongly that your judgment needed some oversight and some feedback, and even though it looks advesarial, hopefully we're providing that. It just seems to me that anyone else who came to similar conclusions should be subject to the same oversight-- doesn't it? Alec ****** Alec, until eight days ago that oversight was not a community concern. I believed it should be, because I wanted clear parameters that I could comply with, but I just couldn't generate enough interest in the subject to establish them. Think of how many news stories the WikiScanner started. This site does a good job of reverting basic vandalism and managing CSD. What it doesn't do nearly so well is address the kind of sustained abuse that comes from profit motive or ideological manipulation. I saw that it was an undermanned area and stepped in, basically because I had developed skills from dealing with a couple of long term vandals at the first article I ever edited. Investigations needs to be a higher priority generally. If there's a good ending to be had from eight days of drama, I hope that's it. Please direct your energies to WP:COIN or WP:SSP. Those boards need help. -Durova