In a message dated 10/28/2008 2:54:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
scs(a)eskimo.com writes:
Sure. So any sentence in that article, if contested, could
reasonably be deleted until a source was found.>>
--------------
Maybe. That seems awfully strong. Most of the time, what we actually do is
remove statements that might be insulting, embarrasing, objectionable (to
the common person), etc.
Calling someone a "film director" is hardly insulting. I would add a
{{fact}} tag however, that seems reasonable.
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In a message dated 10/28/2008 12:52:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes:
Please point to which part of that article is a source for the claim
that he is a filmmaker.>>
------------
Okay I retract my claim that it was sourced. However the article has no
footnotes whatsoever, so that same claim, i.e. that nothing is sourced, could be
made about every sentence in the article.
I don't see have this side-issue advances the situation however. Which
still remains, that we cannot verify that a particular editor is the BLP subject.
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In a message dated 10/28/2008 12:52:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes:
I am not saying anything of the sort.>>
----------------
You said Phil, that you did not see the difference between verifying a
person's identity and verifying the identity of the subject. Perhaps you did not
realize that I was referring strictly to an editor who claims to be the
subject of a BLP.
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In a message dated 10/28/2008 2:27:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
scs(a)eskimo.com writes:
You made the unfounded leap that "the Subject of a BLP should
be treated differently than all other editors". That's what
Snowspinner was not claiming.>>
----------------------
Anybody, Jaron included, could have added a {{fact}} tag to "film director"
and in the course of my meanderings, I would have eventually gotten to it, to
wipe the clause.
Not that I'm the only person who patrols the fact tag.
But that would have been *yet another* way to handle the situation, within
our current methodology.
Will Johnson
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In a message dated 10/28/2008 1:24:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
arromdee(a)rahul.net writes:
Novice to the Internet isn't the same as novice to Wikipedia.>>
-------------------------
Since this conversation has taken so many turns. Why is it, that we're even
discussing this matter which occurred.... two years ago ?
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> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Al Tally <majorly.wiki(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Angela Anuszewski <
>> angela.anuszewski(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nope, Wikipedia should never be used as a citation.
>>
>> --
>> Alex
>> (User:Majorly)
Alot of articles cite different episode articles because they show the
plot and certain major points about the episode since not many web
pages specialize in that. Eg: it might be hard to find a webpage that
can be used to reference something like "Veronica mars first used
Mac's computer skills in "Like a virgin" (Season One/Episode 8) to
track down the person making the fake tests" but citing [[Like a
Virgin (Veronica Mars)]] would be/should be ok since it explains it.
The welcome wagon died a long long time ago.
You could revive it.
In this particular case, Jaron Lanier is NO NOVICE to the internet. I wish
people would acquaint themselves with the facts.
The vast majority of BLP subjects figure out *some* way to maneuver the
system. But by all means, if someone wants to patrol BLPs looking for the
*possibilty* that some random editor is the subject figure out a way to do it.
Complaining about it, doesn't solve anything.
In a message dated 10/28/2008 7:12:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gmaxwell(a)gmail.com writes:
We
could have gotten better results if we listened and used that
information to guide our search for verifiable information or if we
communicated our limitations and concerns to the person complaining.
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It was not unsourced. It was sourced.
And "false" has no position. Neither does "truth".
In a message dated 10/28/2008 6:56:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
scs(a)eskimo.com writes:
Why is anyone defending our
failure to remove an unsourced false BLP fact?
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In a message dated 10/28/2008 6:44:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
snowspinner(a)gmail.com writes:
would ask how "whether we can verify that they are the
subject" is in any way a substantively different issue than "whether
we can verify their identity," >>
------------------
Of course! It's the entire point!
You don't verify my identity in order to approve of edit I make. You review
my edits and say OK I won't revert that it looks good.
I have no particular position of privilege on any article (afaik).
However the Subject of a BLP you are claiming should be treated differently
than all other editors. That is, we should take their word as a source in
order to modify their own articles. And not only should we do that (which we
already do in part), but we should do it, without even the ability to
determine that they are *in fact* the subject of that BLP in the first place.
Yes verifying some editor's identify is quite different from verifying that
they are the Subject of the Article.
Will Johnson
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