libertarian @ myway.com. 'Bout says it all. My way or no way. My way or
I'll cry. I'm quite surprised at how similar the bombast and rhetoric
from libertarian is to that I (unfortunately) encountered on an
anti-Palestinian/pro-Zionist website. Any hint of disagreement with any
portion of their argument, right down to prepositions and pronouns,
means you are worthless and should be squashed between the thumb and the
forefinger like the worthless bug you are. And scornful? Oh mymymy!!
Denni
--
"The difference between extra-marital sex and extra marital sex is not
to be sneezed at." --George Will, on hyphen use
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> This user has posted as LibertarianAnarchist (LA), Democrate2003,
> and Conradx, and I suspect most recently as Romanwarrior,
> Fatalvenom, and maybe one other (I forget).
This is a disgusting lie from you. I've used just one id or occassionally, none when I forget to log in.
Facts are on my side. I don't play dirty unlike you. If you have evidence of me posting with many ids, please present it here.
> Of course, he vociferously denies using this army of
> sockpuppets.
Your crude allegation above is the same manner in which you analyze your "facts."
> His main goal appears to be to push a Hindu nationalist
> POV. He has gone after many other pages, but this is the one where
> he was most active. ([[Babri Mosque]] is another.)
You are the one pushing the White Supremacist POV. I am neither religious nor a nationalist. I have stated facts in an academic manner. You googled your way through and displayed your ignorance. A bunch of ignoramuses writing an encyclopedia is bound to end up with rubbish.
According to you, I made up the claim about VR Krishna Iyer being a Communist. Now that I have posted proof about his message to the organization called Mumbai Resistance (I bet youare so ignorant that you have never heard of it), it proves that I am right and you are ignorant.
> On Talk pages, he called everyone who disagreed with him either a
> communist or (later) a racist.
You were the one who started throwing labels. Even in this mail, you try labelling me a "Hindu Nationalist." Why do you complain when I call you the equivalent of that term? At least I give facts while you learn from my posts.
> His rhetoric on [[Mount Everest]] was particularly wild, and some
> was repeated on the mailing list, as is now happening again.
Your statement is idiotic. I was the one to point out that the first person to figure out that the peak was the highest was a brilliant mathematician named Radhnath Sikdar.
You and other ignorant fools first refused that this was true, but when you Googled, you found that I was right (because my knowledge base is vastly superior to yours). Then you moved it down so that it isn't visible. You did this because you couldn't tolerate the fact that someone who is not a White can achieve something.
At that time, we had an exchange where you accepted that you would publicly agree that you were a fool if Radhanath Sikdar had indeed done what I claimed. According to you, Everest "discovered" the peak and made the calculations all by himself.
Even now you seem to be in a state of denial. What a loser.
> He also throws in vicious anti-Americanism from time
> to time, as all have seen. These accusations are utterly irrational
> and completely unconnected to what anyone ever said.
Vicious hatred of Indians and Hindus is acceptable? e.g: throwing the label "Hindu nationalist" when you cannot counter using facts.
> A consensus to ban him was forming before he suddenly disappeared,
> temporarily it would seem.
You are lying. Angela and BCorr contacted me asking me to desist from posting while they mediated. Out of respect for their request, I stopped posting.
> As for the "Indian kid", I assume that is a reference to
> User:Arvindn, an excellent contributor who used his knowledge of
> India to try to find balance on disputed articles.
Either VRKI is a Communist or not a Communist. Striking a balance on this is foolish. Which is what you did. It shows your idiocy. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you dispute it, use my post on VR Krishna Iyer's message of support to Mumbai Resistance.
> In the midst of the Gujarat edit war, Angela stepped in to ask for a
> resolution, eventually leaving it to Bcorr to mediate, which he did
> by building a new article from the ground up.
He didn't mediate. He agreed to go through point by point and discuss it out, but disappeared.
> Since it was a straightforward matter of LA forcing a POV, the
> newly created article looked much like the NPOV one. Apparently LA
> now believes we must all have been in it together.
It looks like something put together by ignoramuses. You are doing a sisservice to Wikipedia by posting Communist propaganda.
You have already lost it. My evidence this time cannot be disputed even by ignorant Americans clueless about VR Krishna Iyer. His message to a violent organization is proof enough.
> The spat over Iyer is because he has ties to communist groups
but you are ignorant. This is a FACT. He was a Minister in a communist Government, after he was appointed a judge he had to keep away from Communist organizations as the law in India prohibits judges from having affiliation to political organizations and after he retired, he was the Presidential candidate of the Communist Party.
Most recently, he sent a message of support to Mumbai Resistance, an organization about which you learnt from me.
Again, if he is not a Communist, why not use his statements about USA as a fact? You are afraid that you will be exposed, aren't you? Don't worry, I shall edit a few articles using VRKI's statements as authoritative.
-libertarian
_______________________________________________
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> Libertarian, if you wish to take this beyond whatever talk pages
> you and Mark have been arguing on previously, please give us some
> context. Or, preferably, don't - stick to the normal Wikipedia
> dispute resolution
> process.
Fair enough, I'll give you the context. But before that, I want you
to know that I went through the normal dispute resolution process
and submitted a list of factual errors in the existing documents
and corrections along with detailed documentation.
The counter-party did not even bother to make such a submission and
this was then buried without any resolution. I want to know why
India and Hindus should be judged by radical Communists who indulge
in propaganda and why such propaganda should be presented as FACT,
while Christian nations are judged by people who owe allegience to
Christianity and are usually from the mainstream White society.
The whole issue was about a firebombing of a train by Muslims (doing their regular religious duty) which sparked riots in India leaving hundreds of people dead (Hindus as well as Muslims, but naturally, the number of Muslims who were killed was more. This is due to the fact that Hindus outnumber Muslims.)
Like any other Hindu-Muslim riot, the Muslims start it and the number of dead Muslims outnumber the number of dead Hindus.
The firebombing was twisted by Communists (both in India as well as by
those posting on Wikipedia) as a sudden fight which erupted because the Hindu passengers (it turned out that many of them were women and babies) had provoked the Muslims.
Now, anyone with even a little analytical ability will realize that 2000 strong mob doesn't collect because two people squabbled over the price of tea.
Secondly, how did they get cans of petrol and diesel which was enough to burn down a train? All of this happened within 3 minutes for which the train stopped at the station.
Coming to Wikipedia, the claim about some passenger squabbling over the price of tea and then dragging a Muslim girl (unidentified of course) into the train was circulated on the internet and that chain mail gave the name of a journalist as the eyewitness who saw the incident. It also had his phone number.
Some journalists who were superior phoned up the 'eyewitness' for confirmation and were taken aback when the 'eyewitness' said that some enemy of his had sent out that mail and he felt harassed by all the calls and that he had actually reported the opposite!
I posted the articles which appeared in mainstream media pointing this out.
Yet, the mediators after offering to mediate and making me go through due diligence collecting evidence and carefully documenting them, chose to pretend that I did not exist. Perhaps they were lazy. Perhaps their ignorance was being exploited.
The second point was a report by a self-appointed "Human Rights" group which was a Communist organization. The key person was a person named VR Krishna Iyer, who was a Communist and IS a Communist. I was hounded out of Wikipedia for saying this. The 'expert' from India was a college kid who knew nothing about Indian politics and was spewing Communist rhetoric.
That chap was bewildered when I pointed out that VR Krishna Iyer was a Communist and the whole report was a string of allegations against unnamed people using usual Communist rhetoric. He needed to do a Google search to see if it was true. This is amazing because VRKI being a Communist is similar to Bill Clinton being a Democrat. There is no dispute here. Any Indian with half-baked knowledge will laugh at you if you try to dispute this claim.
All my points were obfuscated with the word alleged. Take my advice, if you are going to say that Bill Clinton is an alleged Democrat, it is Wikipedia's reputation which will suffer. All Communist propaganda has been presented as fact.
If VRKI's judgement of India is gospel, so too should be his judgement of USA. I think it is fair. Why should you be judged by a different yardstick? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
I hope you know what Mumbai Resistance is about. It is a violent Communist organization which had its meeting in Mumbai while the World Social Forum meet was going on.
Check out http://www.mumbairesistance.org/
That site also has a message from VR Krishna Iyer where he extends his support for this violent organization.
http://www.mumbairesistance.org/Messages/justice%20vrkrishna.htm
Again, I went through the regular mediation process. I was the one who trusted the mediators. I was the one who took the trouble of explaining the situation. I was the one who documented my claims. I would prefer that this be sorted out in the open with trustworthy people, not people like Angela or Brian Corr who played a game of deception.
Again, I am willing to agree to the Communists' views of India as the one which should be put out on Wikipedia provided you agree to have their views of "imperialist" USA as mainstream views. We'll use "facts" about USA from the same crowd which wrote up that report. Fair enough?
-libertarian
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--- On Sat 06/12, libertarian < libertarian(a)myway.com > wrote:
From: libertarian [mailto: libertarian(a)myway.com]
To: wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Ed Poor's abuse of admin powers
> Your frustration is understandable. I myself have faced this sort of
> hounding from the gang of BCorr, Ed Poor, Angela, VV and others. They
> form a closed knit group and inadverently indulge in propaganda.
For those curious what this is all about, and how I got lumped in
(flatteringly) with this set of contributors, it is a bit of a story.
Start with the page history for [[2002 Gujurat violence]]. This user
has posted as LibertarianAnarchist (LA), Democrate2003, and Conradx,
and I suspect most recently as Romanwarrior, Fatalvenom, and maybe one
other (I forget). Of course, he vociferously denies using this army of
sockpuppets. His main goal appears to be to push a Hindu nationalist
POV. He has gone after many other pages, but this is the one where he
was most active. ([[Babri Mosque]] is another.)
On Talk pages, he called everyone who disagreed with him either a
communist or (later) a racist. His rhetoric on [[Mount Everest]] was
particularly wild, and some was repeated on the mailing list, as is now
happening again. He also throws in vicious anti-Americanism from time
to time, as all have seen. These accusations are utterly irrational
and completely unconnected to what anyone ever said.
A consensus to ban him was forming before he suddenly disappeared,
temporarily it would seem.
As for the "Indian kid", I assume that is a reference to User:Arvindn,
an excellent contributor who used his knowledge of India to try to find
balance on disputed articles. Indeed, I asked for Arvindn's help a few
weeks ago when a spree of India articles suffered LA-style edits. Or,
it may be a reference to User:KRS, also a good contributor.
In the midst of the Gujarat edit war, Angela stepped in to ask for a
resolution, eventually leaving it to Bcorr to mediate, which he did by
building a new article from the ground up. Since it was a
straightforward matter of LA forcing a POV, the newly created article
looked much like the NPOV one. Apparently LA now believes we must all
have been in it together.
The spat over Iyer is because he has ties to communist groups but
denies being a communist. Nevertheless, LA wants to flatly state he is
a communist at every mention, in violation of NPOV policy.
As for Angela and me, I've had only a minor interactions with her (on
VfD, mostly). Really, There Is No Cabal.
It might be considered that he *has* made helpful edits to
non-controversial India articles, though not many.
_______________________________________________
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Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
Reply to Fred Bauder's mail:0
Fred neither knows history nor understands academic
rigor. If he used his brains, he would have asked himself how
Jews and Parsis live peacefully in India while Muslims do
not. He doesn't understand that Muslims have special rights
in India and have ethnically cleansed Kashmir of Hindus,
do you?
He comes across as an ignorant person by insisting that a person
who served as a Minister in a Communist Government, was the
Presidential candidate of the Communist Party and spews Marxist
rhetoric is not a Communist! You guys are truly ignorant.
BTW, I see a lot of Americans resort to branding others as
"nationalists" when they run out of logical arguments, but will
never accept it when they are called White nationalists. Seems
like the indoctrination is complete.
-libertarian
_______________________________________________
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Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
WIKIPEDIA Inaccessible In China
ChinaTechNews.com - Beijing,China
According to several Internet reports both the Chinese and English-language
versions of Wikipedia have now been blocked and are inaccessible from
the Chinese ...
http://www.chinatechnews.com/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=1316
RickK
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
> I believe we've been through this before, and your position has
> been thoroughly refuted.
Wrong. I was the one who provided all evidence. You must be an
ignorant American.
> You have essentially tried to claim any assertions that there
> was violence against Muslims by Hindus is "communist
> propaganda",
You are either a liar or an ignorant fool. I pointed out that the
violence began when the train was firebombed by Muslims. You REFUSE
to accept it. The resulting riots had casualties on both sides.
The view you support is called a conspiracy theory.
It is full of fictional claims about Government planning and
hatching conspiracies to ethnically cleanse Muslims. Which is a
lie. Provide proof for it if you believe it to be the case.
> due to the fact that at least one person made such
> allegations was, several decades ago, a candidate for president on
> a Marxist ticket.
Shows the typical American ignorance again. VR Krishna Iyer
contested regular elections in his youth and when he ran for
President, he had already retired after leading a life as a
Marxist. Your ignorance shows again. It wasn't decades ago
(not in plural).
Besides, none of you American morons, nor the kids knew anything
about India before 1990 and were learning from my posts.
Besides, it wasn't ONE person. The entire organzation consists
of Communists. I proved this many times. I have asked this question
before and I ask again - if you want to take their statements as
facts, I think it is fair to use their statements and allegations
against USA too! Why not? Or do you have different standards for
White skinned people?
> You then tried to rewrite the article with a hardline
> Hindu nationalist take on the events, one that would not be
> accepted by any newspaper, barring some of the radical ones in
> India.
Your hatred and jealousy shows here. There is nothing called
Hindu nationalism. That is a myth. The fact is that Islam indulges
in terrorism all over the world and sometimes, even tolerant people
hit back. The typical white skinned American refuses to accept
this and roots for Islam because it is a religion of the book and
pagans are low lives.
> You were not "clearly superior"---
I am superior and you are inferior. India now has a Communist
coalition whether you accept it or not.
Consider the facts I support and the ones you support.
The train at Godhra was firebombed by Muslims. (You refuse
to accept this.)
This resulted in Hindu-Muslim riots. (you insist this is not
the case and all casualties were Muslims and it was the result
of a conspiracy hatched by Hindus.)
According to you the statements made in that chain mail were
accurate while I point out that the journalist named as an
eyewitness refuted it.
> your writing was inaccurate,
My writing was 100% accurate. You come across as a fool by spewing
Communist propaganda and claiming that Muslim terrorism is terrorism
only if White skinned Americans are killed.
> and you are simply trying to spew hardline nationalist
> propaganda on Wikipedia.
I am not a nationalist. I am an anarchist.
> Your attacks on your opponents for being "communists" or
> "communist supporters" are becoming rather tiresome.
For someone who gets brainwashed by Fox TV, your view is
understandable, but despite your strident assertions, India
has Communists and the Govt in power is run by a Communist
coalition. Your ignorance is amazing.
Yet, this is typical American behavior. The whole world is
seen through religions and conflicts. If White skinned people
are killed by Muslims, it is the fault of Muslims, otherwise
it is the fault of pagans! Disgusting to say the least. At least
learn to look around you and I am sure there will be Indians
around you. Check out how they keep to themselves and are quiet.
Then look at Muslims around you and you will see them demanding
their pound of flesh and creating conflicts.
-libertarian
_______________________________________________
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Delirium,
How about addressing my points in an academic fashion instead
of suppressing those who document their claims?
See my previous mail about VR Krishna Iyer's message to a
Communist organization.
Obviously, my style is an expression of frustration at seeing
Communists being able to succeed with their propaganda. All I
want is honest and constructive discussion.
BTW, branding me a "Hindu Nationalist" is an insult. How come
you don't protest that?
Again, check out the evidence I posted, viz, VRK's message to
Mumbai Resistance and answer me honestly if he is not a Communist.
-libertarian
_______________________________________________
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Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
In a message dated 6/13/2004 5:53:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rkscience100(a)yahoo.com writes:
Anthere has now clearly overstepped her authority.
As of today, Anthere has quite a bit more authority than you care to imagine.
Pick your enemies wisely, Robert. I wouldn't go launching attacks on the
Board if I were you.
Danny