A problem has cropped up over titles, specifically COURTESY TITLES on Wiki.
While standard titles relating to peerages can be ignored because there is
an alternative (the holder will have a name and surname), courtesy titles
(ie, titles possessed by someone related to a peer; son, daughter, wife,
etc) are usually treated as PART OF A NAME in common usage, given that they
are attached to the name. Which means Wiki's policy of dropping titles like
'Lord', 'Lady' etc is producing unrecognisable names that users find hard to
follow. I thought there was just one or two, but others have been pointing
out more and more examples.
Examples:
Lord John Russell (UK PM in the 1840s) is down as JOHN RUSSELL, a name 100%
of people studying english history would not recognise. Leaving out the lord
bit is the equivalent in terms of recognition of turning 'William Jefferson
Clinton' to 'Jefferson Clinton' and then wondering why no-one knows would
recognise who is being written about.
Lady Jane Grey is down as JANE GREY, again a name never ever used without
'Lady'.
Lady Gregory or Lady Augusta Gregory (founder of Dublin's Abbey Theatre) is
down as AUGUSTA GREGORY, a rarely used variation on her name. Most history
books simply say 'Lady Gregory'.
Lady Caroline Lamb is down as CAROLINE LAMB.
Lady Diana Spencer was down as DIANA SPENCER. (Someone has changed her name
to another variation).
The trouble in these cases with simply on an ad hoc basis using the 'lord'
or 'lady' is that someone else will come along, say Wiki doesn't use titles,
and remove it, leading to edit wars over how Wiki should refer to these and
others. Quite a few people at this stage have said they are uncomfortable
having to use a version of the name minus the courtesy title that to them
makes no sense and makes it more difficult to follow. Even people who in
general remove such titles have said the Wiki policy in this area needs to
be clarified and made more user-friendly and logical.
After a lot of consultation (here and on various pages) we reached a
consensus on how to use royal nomenclatures. This is one of the remaining
glitches to be worked out.
The best solution here might be to say on the naming convention page:
OTHER THAN IN THE CASE OF ROYALTY, AVOID USING PEERAGE TITLES (eg, Earl of
Ardbraccan) OR HONOURS ('Sir') IN THE TITLES OF ARTICLES. INSTEAD USE THE
PERSON'S NAME AND SURNAME.
HOWEVER, IN THE CASE OF COURTESY TITLES (ie, titles attached to a person's
name and surname by virtue of they being a son, daughter, wife, etc of a
peer) IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO USE THE TITLE WHERE THE IDENTITY OF A PERSON MAY
BE UNCLEAR WITHOUT IT.
FOR EXAMPLE:
Lord John Russell, rather than John Russell
Lady Augusta Gregory, rather than Augusta Gregory
Lady Jane Grey, rather than Jane Grey
Lady Diana Spencer, rather than Diana Spencer
IF IN DOUBT, ASK FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS ON THE NAMING CONVENTIONS TALK
PAGE.
Any observations?
JT
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Quoted from the user:talk page. No additional comment needed.
Tokerboy: Your user page is in error. You are still banned until
User:Jimbo Wales says otherwise, which will only happen if the mailing
list et al support it.
Ortolan88: And, never under this name
Tannin: Don't trouble to think that there are just one or two weirdos
who take this view: I am about to suggest on the list that you be
completely deleted (if others have not already done so) - and I will be
very surprised if that does not take place. Perhaps others will take a
different view, but I am of the opinion that a user with so little
consideration for other readers cannot be presumed to have anything
useful to contribute, and should not be allowed back under any name or
any circumstances.
> Message: 9
> From: Daniel Mayer <maveric149(a)yahoo.com>
> To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 01:31:53 -0800
> Cc: wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] SERIOUS HELP NEEDED NOW!
> Reply-To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
> I think it is way past time that admins can view users' IPs. This is
> ridiculous!
Agreed.
If we manage to find out the IP, shouldn't a vandal attack of this
extent be reason enough to contact the provider of this idiot?
Mirko.
--
Mirko Thiessen
http://www.mirko-thiessen.de
Apparently, the issue with Lir is a bit deeper than I thought, and I do
side with some of the people offended by her--some of the comments were
sharp and a bit 'unladylike' (for the record, I think men and women
should both behave 'ladylike' in polite company). But one of the things
that really got me was where Zoe said she would leave if Lir was
unbanned and 'continued his usual obnoxiousness'. That's not cool. Now
you're adding some more emotion to the admin's decisions. Now they must
worry if it is worthwhile to add Lir if they'd be losing you, and that's
really unfair. The decision should be made based on whether the admins
feel it would help Wikipedia, overall.
/
The vandal seems to be pulling the articles out of somewhere. I suggest
disabling the random article finder (the vandalized articles really are
random, and that could be where they are taking them from) until this is
resolved. Other than that, mav, modemac, and tannin--you are doing a great
job. Every time I try to help out, it's already been done. Good work.
Danny
I didn't say that, and I don't think anyone else on the list said that since I've been watching it, which is admittedly, not very long.
The Cunctator, I assumed there was more than one admin involved in this process. Thanks for the clarification.
Out of curiousity, if Lir was unbanned and told exactly what must be done to be a member in good standing, would it not be all too easy to ban her again if they showed a disregard for those guidelines?
<<< Message: 7
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 23:20:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Zoe <zoecomnena(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l digest, Vol 1 #123 - 15 msgs
To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
Reply-To: wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org
--0-1343483212-1044688843=:49491
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Fine. Goodbye. I'm obviously not wanted here.
Zoe >>>
There is a very persisant vandal afoot that is jumping accounts and reverting
articles to older versions at an alarming rate. I can barely keep up by using
the rollback feature.
PLEASE somebody with godlike developer powers block this fuck. I've been at
this full time for over an hour -- There are many other things I would rather
be doing on Wikipedia.
A very frustrated mav
I think it is way past time that admins can view users' IPs. This is
ridiculous!
This VANDAL started with user:Annetit and has already created about a dozen
other accounts just to stay a step ahead of me rollbacking his edits (since
for each new user name on RC I have to review the edits before determining
they are vandalism or not -- which is damn difficult because the VANDAL is
often reverting to slightly older versions!)
Someone named Annetit, with the cooperation of someone named AgainstCensure, has decided it necessary to make misogynistic comments in the http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman article, despite several attempts at reversion.
Zoe
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