[Wikidata-l] Re-enable quick editing in Wikidata please - Wikidata

Romaine Wiki

8 Oct 8 Oct

9:45 p.m.

PS: I filed a bug for this much annoying situation: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71845 2014-10-08 23:24 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hello all, Recently Wikidata was changed which caused it much more work for especially power users. It is no longer easy to add/change parts of pages. Each time I now have to edit a section and save it before I can continue in another section. A simple adding of 4 pages results in much more clicks. Was: click + paste + save + add + lang + paste + save Now: edit + click + paste + scrolling + save (outside my screen) + edit + add + lang + paste + save (on not expecting place) And that four times... This creates a much less efficient working situation. That is not workable. Can the previous situation be restored? Or can someone write a gadget so that this change is bypassed? Thanks! Romaine

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Romaine Wiki

2:52 p.m.

Hello Lydia, I can understand that it is not restored back in the previous situation, but this is not an improvement. Editing Wikidata is made harder, more difficult, and more clumpsy. This change of a new design is counter-productive. For months we are asking people to add stuff to Wikidata if they created an article, we stop with that. We really can't explain this change. It is also counter-productive if a wrong decision is made and the effects for end users are ignored, while they have (or had) to deal with it every time. This version is not an improvement but a step back in time. I am sure you and your team have been working hard on this, but apparently in the process it has been missed how a lot of users work with Wikidata. That you notice some issues is fine, but that is no answer at all to the current complaints. Seeing the reactions from other users elsewhere I am not alone in this. But one question is answered, you are not willing to restore a better version of the software to restore the downfall but want to keep this annoying not handy working version. To everyone: The second question is not answered yet: is anyone able to write a gadget/script to bypass this not working situation? Thanks! Romaine 2014-10-09 9:27 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de>de>:

...

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all, Recently Wikidata was changed which caused it much more work for

especially

power users. It is no longer easy to add/change parts of pages. Each

time I

now have to edit a section and save it before I can continue in another section. A simple adding of 4 pages results in much more clicks. Was: click + paste + save + add + lang + paste + save Now: edit + click + paste + scrolling + save (outside my screen) + edit + add + lang + paste + save (on not expecting place) And that four times... This creates a much less efficient working situation. That is not workable. Can the previous situation be restored? Or can someone write a gadget so that this change is bypassed?

Hey Romaine, What you are seeing is an intermediate step in the work on the new design. Looking back we should have given this another two weeks of work before rolling it out. We will not be rolling this back however as that'd be non-trivial and counter-productive. We will instead fix the issues the current version has and push further towards the new design. The current issues I am aware of: * Edit conflicts often happening when editing more than one data point. In our testing this didn't happen so we are investigating why this is happening on the live-system now. Fix is high priority. * Long scrolling when editing an item with many sitelinks. You can press enter to save whatever you entered without needing to scroll up. That will help you right now. We will look into additional improvements over the next days. In the bug report you mention being able to edit a section while in edit mode for another section. That has never been possible. Can you clarify that please? Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

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Romaine Wiki

10 Oct 10 Oct

2:20 a.m.

Sorry Lydia, but I can't read that in your reply. I point on an overlooked issue with designing the current version. I see no recognition that this is an issue that is taken serious and needs to be solved. You mention that there are issues that will be solved, but the issue raised here is not taken into account (it seems). You say that you will move forward. I reply on that the current design is a downfall compared with how it was. I conclude based on what I notice in the editing workflow that the change is not an improvement. In your reply you do not give the impression that the issue raised here is going to be solved, nor that you want to restore the previous workable version, so in that perspective you keep the current design which is troubling. It is a step back. If someone would ask me to put the versions in chronological order of development based on how it works for users, than the current version would come before the previous version. If the current design would have been followed by the previous design, I would have congratulated the Wikidata team with this major improvement, which makes editing Wikidata for users much easier. Are there any plans yet in what the workflow of users is restored to a workable situation? Romaine 2014-10-09 18:08 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de>de>:

...

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Lydia, I can understand that it is not restored back in the previous situation,

but

this is not an improvement. Editing Wikidata is made harder, more

difficult,

and more clumpsy. This change of a new design is counter-productive. For months we are asking people to add stuff to Wikidata if they created an article, we stop with that. We really can't explain this change. It is

also

counter-productive if a wrong decision is made and the effects for end

users

are ignored, while they have (or had) to deal with it every time. This version is not an improvement but a step back in time. I am sure you and your team have been working hard on this, but apparently in the process

it

has been missed how a lot of users work with Wikidata. That you notice some issues is fine, but that is no answer at all to the current complaints. Seeing the reactions from other users elsewhere I am

not

alone in this. But one question is answered, you are not willing to restore a better version of the software to restore the downfall but want to keep this annoying not handy working version.

No that's not what I said. I said we are going to move forward and make this better so the issues you are having now will no longer be there. By no means do I want to insist on keeping the current status - quite the opposite. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

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Romaine Wiki

1:50 p.m.

You can discuss the general user friendliness, but that is not the topic of this thread. You also miss the problem that is described. All the rest you write is not relevant here at all. There is a problem with the workflow and we (I have seen several users who complaint about it) would like that to be taken seriously. Romaine 2014-10-10 8:14 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hoi Romaine, I am sorry but while I understand your frustration, you are not realistic and you do no justice to the situation. To start with Wikidata is not user friendly at all. It never was because development has been concentrating on basic architecture and basic functionality. At that we are still waiting for much needed basic functionality for instance statements that indicate what unit they are (kilo, meter, calories etc) and queries. When you read the replies of Lydia, it is quite plain that what we have is an intermediate step towards a different user interface. What we have now will pass. When you consider the old UI, it may have worked for you but I find it is lacking basic functionality for editors. My pet pieve is that when I add a URL for an item, it is not able to strip all the web junk away to be left with the Qnumber. Now I have to do it by hand and, I do that a lot. Some work on similar issues were done in the "paper cuts". What I am looking for in the new UI is similarity with what Reasonator looks like. My motivation is that in this way it will be possible to have an overview of all the data. The data becomes informative in this way. That may not help editors much. Much of the data is entered by bots and external tools, they are likely to be affected in different ways by the continuing stream of changes as well. I am sure you have seen all the huha around Flow and the visual editor. I loathed the way people bullied their opinion on everybody else. PLEASE let us not go that way with Wikidata. Thanks, GerardM On 10 October 2014 04:20, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry Lydia, but I can't read that in your reply. I point on an overlooked issue with designing the current version. I see no recognition that this is an issue that is taken serious and needs to be solved. You mention that there are issues that will be solved, but the issue raised here is not taken into account (it seems). You say that you will move forward. I reply on that the current design is a downfall compared with how it was. I conclude based on what I notice in the editing workflow that the change is not an improvement. In your reply you do not give the impression that the issue raised here is going to be solved, nor that you want to restore the previous workable version, so in that perspective you keep the current design which is troubling. It is a step back. If someone would ask me to put the versions in chronological order of development based on how it works for users, than the current version would come before the previous version. If the current design would have been followed by the previous design, I would have congratulated the Wikidata team with this major improvement, which makes editing Wikidata for users much easier. Are there any plans yet in what the workflow of users is restored to a workable situation? Romaine 2014-10-09 18:08 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> :

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Lydia, I can understand that it is not restored back in the previous

situation, but

this is not an improvement. Editing Wikidata is made harder, more

difficult,

and more clumpsy. This change of a new design is counter-productive.

For

months we are asking people to add stuff to Wikidata if they created an article, we stop with that. We really can't explain this change. It is

also

counter-productive if a wrong decision is made and the effects for end

users

are ignored, while they have (or had) to deal with it every time. This version is not an improvement but a step back in time. I am sure you

and

your team have been working hard on this, but apparently in the

process it

has been missed how a lot of users work with Wikidata. That you notice some issues is fine, but that is no answer at all to

the

current complaints. Seeing the reactions from other users elsewhere I

am not

alone in this. But one question is answered, you are not willing to restore a better version of the software to restore the downfall but want to keep this annoying not handy working version.

No that's not what I said. I said we are going to move forward and make this better so the issues you are having now will no longer be there. By no means do I want to insist on keeping the current status - quite the opposite. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

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Jane Darnell

14 Oct 14 Oct

8:15 p.m.

Romaine, Have you looked at "quick statements" to add or update information in Wikidata? It is here: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php Maybe this will help you do repetitive updates (you still need to build a list of something, but then you don't have to wait for Wikidata to make the update) Jane On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hoi, What you missed is how plainly Lydia indicates that this is an in between state of affairs. Usability issues are taken seriously. You and maybe several other users are absorbed in misery. Every workflow in Wikidata is not explicitly supported. I do not discuss user friendliness, it sucks. The good thing about user interfaces and usability is that it can be worked on improved upon. The way people complain and make demands is something that is to be suffered. I do not suffer quietly I prefer not to suffer and make the best of the hand I am dealt. Thanks, GerardM On 10 October 2014 15:50, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

You can discuss the general user friendliness, but that is not the topic of this thread. You also miss the problem that is described. All the rest you write is not relevant here at all. There is a problem with the workflow and we (I have seen several users who complaint about it) would like that to be taken seriously. Romaine 2014-10-10 8:14 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hoi Romaine, I am sorry but while I understand your frustration, you are not realistic and you do no justice to the situation. To start with Wikidata is not user friendly at all. It never was because development has been concentrating on basic architecture and basic functionality. At that we are still waiting for much needed basic functionality for instance statements that indicate what unit they are (kilo, meter, calories etc) and queries. When you read the replies of Lydia, it is quite plain that what we have is an intermediate step towards a different user interface. What we have now will pass. When you consider the old UI, it may have worked for you but I find it is lacking basic functionality for editors. My pet pieve is that when I add a URL for an item, it is not able to strip all the web junk away to be left with the Qnumber. Now I have to do it by hand and, I do that a lot. Some work on similar issues were done in the "paper cuts". What I am looking for in the new UI is similarity with what Reasonator looks like. My motivation is that in this way it will be possible to have an overview of all the data. The data becomes informative in this way. That may not help editors much. Much of the data is entered by bots and external tools, they are likely to be affected in different ways by the continuing stream of changes as well. I am sure you have seen all the huha around Flow and the visual editor. I loathed the way people bullied their opinion on everybody else. PLEASE let us not go that way with Wikidata. Thanks, GerardM On 10 October 2014 04:20, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry Lydia, but I can't read that in your reply. I point on an overlooked issue with designing the current version. I see no recognition that this is an issue that is taken serious and needs to be solved. You mention that there are issues that will be solved, but the issue raised here is not taken into account (it seems). You say that you will move forward. I reply on that the current design is a downfall compared with how it was. I conclude based on what I notice in the editing workflow that the change is not an improvement. In your reply you do not give the impression that the issue raised here is going to be solved, nor that you want to restore the previous workable version, so in that perspective you keep the current design which is troubling. It is a step back. If someone would ask me to put the versions in chronological order of development based on how it works for users, than the current version would come before the previous version. If the current design would have been followed by the previous design, I would have congratulated the Wikidata team with this major improvement, which makes editing Wikidata for users much easier. Are there any plans yet in what the workflow of users is restored to a workable situation? Romaine 2014-10-09 18:08 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de>gt;: > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hello Lydia, > > > > I can understand that it is not restored back in the previous > situation, but > > this is not an improvement. Editing Wikidata is made harder, more > difficult, > > and more clumpsy. This change of a new design is counter-productive. > For > > months we are asking people to add stuff to Wikidata if they created > an > > article, we stop with that. We really can't explain this change. It > is also > > counter-productive if a wrong decision is made and the effects for > end users > > are ignored, while they have (or had) to deal with it every time. > This > > version is not an improvement but a step back in time. I am sure you > and > > your team have been working hard on this, but apparently in the > process it > > has been missed how a lot of users work with Wikidata. > > > > That you notice some issues is fine, but that is no answer at all to > the > > current complaints. Seeing the reactions from other users elsewhere > I am not > > alone in this. > > > > But one question is answered, you are not willing to restore a better > > version of the software to restore the downfall but want to keep this > > annoying not handy working version. > > No that's not what I said. I said we are going to move forward and > make this better so the issues you are having now will no longer be > there. By no means do I want to insist on keeping the current status - > quite the opposite. > > > Cheers > Lydia > > -- > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher > Product Manager for Wikidata > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 > 10963 Berlin > www.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

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Gerard Meijssen

12:19 p.m.

Hoi, Thanks :) Gerard On 15 October 2014 08:54, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> wrote:

...

Hey :) Update/next steps: * We've investigated the edit conflict issues and found the cause. * We're working on a fix for the edit conflicts. In this sprint. * We're going to work on a floating edit toolbar so that the edit link is not scrolling outside your screen. In this sprint. * We're going to add an empty line so you can immediately add a new link without having to click edit. Not in this sprint but hopefully next. http://sb.wmflabs.org/t/wikidata-developers/2014-10-14/ Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

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